To stipulate minimum number of nights at home for DD?

[teenmumstress24]

DD turned 18 a few months ago. Her 18th birthday coincided with her meeting a new boyfriend who she is inseparable from. She spends around 1-3 nights per fortnight at home, and that's only to sleep / occasionally grab food or a shower. She doesn't converse with anyone (unless to ask for lifts or to borrow cash), and she certainly doesn't do any housework. Since this time there have been numerous issues and arguments; mostly around the following themes:

• constant requests for lifts from me or partner (although this has declined since her boyfriend passed his driving test a few weeks ago as he's seemingly the taxi now)
• never doing any housework
• never being at home long enough to converse with anyone and all her interactions being requests for something
• letting me and her little sister down after agreeing to do something with us and then dropping us in favour of the boyfriend (little sister is only 3 so doesn't understand and gets very upset about her big sister not being there)
• more recently me and my partner (her step dad) we're both told to "fuck off" when we were unable to facilitate a lift whilst juggling bedtime and household tasks between us after work one evening (she later apologised for this; but it's left a very sour taste)
• boyfriend got involved in disagreement following the above incident, and whilst I was the on the phone to her during a heated discussion about that, I was apparently on loudspeaker as I could hear the boyfriend chirping up "just hang up on her" (to my daughter about me)

I'm at my wits end and I can't take anymore. I've contact the GP for some medication to take the edge off because I feel so low and as though I've basically lost my daughter. I've tried telling her miss her, I'm sad about it all, I want her to spend more time at home, etc. She still doesn't. All I get from her is, "it's normal for me to want to be at his house more often he's a new boyfriend". However, she makes time for her dad, her dad's side of the family, my sister (her aunt who's she close to), her friends, and her boyfriend. The only person she lets down and seems to not want to be around is me.

She pays no board (she's at college and works part time earning only about £70-100 a week so I've never taken any money off her). I pay for her phone contract. She doesn't contribute to the food shop here but does buy her own takeaways etc . Her only regular bill is a gym membership.

I've suggested to her since she appears to not live here anymore that she moves out and pays her boyfriends mum board? The response was "I don't want to move out". But 1-3 nights here a fortnight on average would suggest she pretty much has moved out. She has the largest room in the house and it's just wasted space, it's never occupied.

My AIBU is, would I be unreasonable to stipulate that if she wants to continue to live here that I put in place the following rules:

1- she actually occupies her room more regularly than 1-3 times a fortnight? So set a minimum number.
2- she pulls her weight with household tasks and until I see her doing so on a regular basis without any prompting or nagging, I will charge her board. I will stop charging board once she pulls her weight regularly.

Does this sound reasonable? My head is a total mess with it all, I'm struggling to disentangle the emotion from the practical side, so it may come across as garbled. I'm not a good place with it all tbh as I feel so lost and as though she just dislikes me for some reason 😔

Any help appreciated.

This is very well put. Deserves a second read, OP. I hope it is helpful!

No, I think you're coming at it from the wrong angle. Trying to force her to be around won't work. You need to address the things that you can control. Refuse lifts you don't want to give. Insist that you are spoken to respectfully or walk away. Don't lend money you don't wish to. You have the right to reallocate rooms if you choose. (Although I'd give it 6 months to see if the relationship was still going before I'd do that personally). I don't think its fair she should pay board when she's not there, although perhaps a small contribution when she is if you need it. I also don't think she should do housework to clean up mess she wasn't there to create, although cleaning up after herself should be a given. In short, I think you need to accept her right to be elsewhere if she chooses and focus on setting boundaries about behaviour when she is at home.

Personally, I think you have very natural concerns and feelings about a situation, I wouldn't necessarily think there's something wrong with your mental health but obviously that's private to you but feeling sad about a change is not poor mental health IMO.

It is a minefield though and as Mums you're absolutely never allowed to reveal any emotion, any weakness, at all times you should be there for everyone in the family and be happy to be the emotional punch bag and anchor for everyone else, the housemaid, the person who had nonfree time, in fact you should be perfect - didn't you get the memo when you gave birth🙄! I mean personally, I feel this is such poor signalling to my youngest who is a DD and who may be a Mother one day!

This is a difficult one to navigate. Your daughter is being really disrespectful and that is exacerbated by the fact her boyfriend is trash (sorry but him advising your daughter to “just hang up on you” is clear evidence of that.

I don’t know the best way to navigate this but I wish you all the luck in the world.

And it was always, "mum can so and so come over as she's fallen out with her mum / her boyfriend / wants some tea" whatever. And she knew it was an open invitation for them all. But now suddenly just, never here? And I'm the exact same person I was in September and all those years before.... very odd indeed.

Do you think she'd agree to a set evening for the two of you each week? Go out and get food, watch a movie, play a board game, go to the cinema. Basically, spend time together in rich chores or anything 'negative' isn't mentioned, but that is quality time together.

Why does she have the largest room in the house?

She's 18 years old. She is an adult. You can't insist she stays at home. She is not a child.

However, with that comes the responsibility of acting like an adult. She needs to take part in chores when she IS home, she needs to stop demanding lifts and sort her own travel, she needs to stop letting her little sister down, and start speaking to you respectfully.

But in answer to your thread title, no, you cannot and should not "stipulate a minimum number of nights at home".

'Overemotional'- what because she expresses emotions?

From what you’ve said about the boyfriend telling her to just hang up when she was on the phone to you, I’d guess the problem is the boyfriend. So, I would not make these rules and I’d do everything I can to show her your love (even if you secretly feel stressed and annoyed at her). I’d also be making some surreptitious enquiries about this boyfriend. He sounds like bad news and potentially controlling (which might explain her swearing at you - she could be stressed but be unable to process it).

@Goldenbear I completely agree with you re the unrealistic expectations placed upon mothers, I think we are on the same page. Thank you for your input and for helping to make me feel less alone! X

But even if it is the boyfriend, there’s nothing you can do about that other than continue as you were beforehand and the novelty will wear off eventually.

That's a good point,

Op, you are not unreasonable to expect your daughter to participate a bit more in family life than she is currently doing but don't kick her out just yet. This relationship may not last, she is very young.

@teenmumstress24 in the kindest possible way, your reaction is entirely disproportionate.

She's 18 and at the moment probably thinks she's met the love of her life. It's new and exciting and all consuming. Surely you can remember how that feels? She likely gets to be very carefree and live in their "love bubble" at his house.

It's entirely possible that, you asking when she will be home or saying she should be home or even the occasional asking her to do chores is coming across as nagging and controlling and she's becoming upset on the phone or after the call ends and that's why he's telling her to hang up.

She probably even feels like you telling her you miss her and love her is nagging and putting demands on her time when she just wants to continue in this bubble and new exciting feeling with her boyfriend.

Kindly you need to back off and take a different approach. Telling you to fuck off absolutely isn't OK or acceptable in anyway but you have had an apology even if it was half arsed, so drop that one now.

Instead of telling her you love her and miss her and want to spend time with her switch it up and tell her that you would love for her and her boyfriend to spend time at your home. It doesn't need to be staying over, and be prepared they're likely initially to spend all the time closed into her room, but at that age that's normal. But the key is to build up from there, try to get to know him, welcome him into your home without placing expectations on either of them. Don't force them come sit at the table and eat dinner etc just encourage her to spend time at home with him there too.

And please don't listen to posters frothing about charging board or changing her to the smallest room, all that will do is make DD think you're replacing her or it's another attack and pushing her out. You'll push her further into his arms. The relationship is highly unlikely to last but you don't want to make things hostile at home and risk her digging in her heels and persevering in a relationship that isn't working because she feels she has nowhere to go.

It's fine to have boundaries but please really reflect on them through the lenses of an 18 year old, let's face it most 18 year olds are selfish and think the world revolves around them, that they are an adult and they know best for themselves. It isn't until you get a little older that you realise at 18 you were still a child and didn't know anything that you thought you did.

Because she wanted it when we moved here and we obliged, knowing that a baby/toddler didn't need a huge room.

So mom I get she lives at yours but she is 18 now at an age where she will be in and out of the house a lot more.

I would not charge any board to a child working part time who is currently finishing their A-levels.

Maybe you need to look inwards and ask yourself why it annoys / angers you that your daughter is spending more time out of the home and with her new boyfriend? Because re reading it does make you seem a little needy and maybe that is what she wants a break from? How will you cope if she decides to go away to university?

(I do think her room should be downgraded though - if she is barely there she does not need a big room.)

Yes, the boyfriend involving himself like that is very telling- he's an 18 year old kid who knows nothing about you. I would not tell my DH who I have known for 20 years to hang up on his Mum and she can be very difficult but it isn't my place.

Things change. She probably found you needy and overemotional and the toddler annoying before, but now she doesn’t have to.

Sounds like maybe she was spoiled as a child and the chickens are coming home to roost?

I get why she would have a bigger room than a toddler but not why it would be bigger than the room you share with your partner / husband?

She seems like a normal 18 year old.
The only issue I could see was she swore at you. She did then apologise though.

In 6 months or so she’ll move out to go to uni, your problem is then solved.

Why would your own child pay you for board?

Also; I don't believe he brings out the best in her unfortunately. Her attitude is awful since he's been on the scene, an example of being told to fuck off. She's never, ever said anything remotely like that to me in her life. She's not herself
Or she's not how you want her to be OP? Telling you to fuck off is absolutely not on but, as it is out of character, do you not understand the role your REACTION to this new and exciting stage of her life may be playing in this?
I'm at my wits end and I can't take anymore. I've contact the GP for some medication to take the edge off because I feel so low and as though I've basically lost my daughter. I've tried telling her miss her, I'm sad about it all, I want her to spend more time at home, etc. She still doesn't
How do you expect her to react to your attempts to guilt her or make her feel like there is something wrong with her? I'm honestly interested. You say that she has no idea of your struggles but how can she not when you say things like that?
Do you really not see that it is just as likely that it is not the boyfriend that has 'changed' her but the changes in you? To her, she's in love, she's happy and excited and acting like every 18 yr old ever in wanting to spend as much time with him as she can but you are not the mum she's used to you being. Her happiness seems to have resulted in nothing but negativity from you. That's what she'll be seeing

If you are sobbing from the moment you open your eyes, there is no way that it is not affecting everyone, including your 3 yr old. You need to stop associating it with your dds actions, or rather, her boyfriend being the source of all problems and separate the issues. Focusing on, and blaming it on, the situation with your dd just prevents you from doing what you need to do for you to feel better.

You don't have to do her laundry, so stop. Even though it will be one less stick to beat her with. I don't do my teens washing, it's not a requirement.
Ensure she knows that she must clean up after herself, that's not an unreasonable expectation. If she's always done so and only stopped in the last 8 weeks, it shouldn't be such a drama to make sure she gets back on track there.

Other than that, she really isn't doing anything wrong. You are doing yourself and your dd no favours by digging your heels in and refusing to take any responsibility for the way the relationship between the two of you has changed.

You seem determined to blame the boyfriend for everything rather than examining your own behaviour. Maybe he is a complete wrongun (and if he is then the odds are she will work that out herself and the relationship will fizzle out) but in the meantime you are still putting a lot of pressure on her to be exactly the same as she was a few months ago.

She's young and people change- you must have realised that the relationship you had then or the one you had when she was a child wasn't necessarily going to be the one you'd have forever? If you didn't then more fool you I'm afraid. She is becoming a young adult, and forging her own path- you won't always agree with it, but that's part and parcel of seeing a child grow up.

You’re incredibly defensive.

She’s manifesting such typical ‘my boyfriend is the be all and end all’ behaviour that I’m bamboozled as to why you’re so intense about it.

You act like you love him to bits and wait for the inevitable break up when she needs a shoulder to cry on. Then you can sooth her when she tells you ‘but I love him soooooo much Mum’ and wait for the day (not very long with teens) when she hates him.

Then you can rinse and repeat a few times with the next few.

At the moment you risk not being that shoulder.

OP you have received some really nuanced, insightful advice here from several posters which you continue to ignore. Instead of reflecting and considering how you could alter your perspective or any of your behaviour, you are apportioning all blame to your daughter’s boyfriend. Who you’ve never even met. This way of thinking is very black and white. You had the insight to recognise that previous trauma has impacted you, but you seem to think this wouldn’t play out at all in your relationship with your daughter. It is even playing out here - you are very sensitive to any perceived criticism and quick to take a defensive position, even accusing posters of being nasty to you. The vast majority of posters have been trying to offer constructive advice, but you are not receptive to this unless it fits your narrative of demonising the boyfriend and taking no responsibility.

You have said a few times that you feel rejected by your daughter, when what she is doing is very developmentally appropriate for her age. Your response to feeling rejected is to take a punitive stance towards her e.g focusing on housework tasks, considering charging her money / asking her to move rooms, which ironically will only serve to push her further away and strengthen your feelings of rejection. The mixed messages and strong emotions suggests that something is very much being triggered here for you and I hope you are able to seek therapy, for the sake of your relationship with your daughter.

And OP will still get paid Child Benefit for.
Honestly OP you are pushing her away.
By all means make her do the odd chore but I can't see she can make THAT much mess.
Do not guilt trip her (or worse force her) into being at home more and don't use the little one to guilt her, she's your responsibility not your daughters