To think that *Some men steal the joy

[Vodkaandpepsimax]

Out of life?

I see it around me, with friend’s husbands and then often have it at home with mine and also grew up with a dad who veered between super fun, very imaginative and funny to very grumpy…It would feel like a lot revolved around his mood, whereas mum stayed pretty constant (or pretended to be at least)
Yesterday, trying to get all christmassy (I enjoy it all and especially for dd, 6’s sake) went to a christmas event, Dh silent in the car, me singing along awkwardly with dd to a Mr Tumble xmas cd. It was very busy when we arrived, lots of time to park, yes annoying, but dh so moody about it, I offer to drive/park, he snaps back. Complains about queues for the hot chocolate…just takes the joy out of the experience. I’ve booked for just dd and I to go to see The Nutcracker as I know it will be a much nicer, special experience just us, but obviously need to do things as a family.
Anyone else in this situation

Exactly this 👏

My ex did for sure

What's the point of even having a family is you can't ever do anything together. Not saying you should be joined at the hip, but if you never do anything together you're less than roommates.

Completely agree. (Personally, I feel like my DH got worse since Covid? He seems to become a tattling curtain twitcher desperate to complain. Or maybe that just coincided with him getting older and he’d have gone that way anyway. Who knows, who cares, but it is absolute drudgery to live with.)

I know what you mean OP as I've seen this with other people but no chance would I tolerate it for myself. He'd be told in no uncertain terms that he either fixes his attitude or he can only do things he enjoys - when he's single again...

omg I think you’ve hit on the the fun sponge/martyr dynamic that characterised the most toxic bit of my childhood. Man being grumpy and a woman trying way too hard. It’s not great to witness your mum faking a smile all the time tbh, can become a really unstable environment if it’s chronic (which it was in my household for a while).

I think it probably is true that men are *more likely to be a fun sponge within a parenting arrangement but like @gannett said I think, more generally, it’s an equal opportunities role. And these days it’s mum mum who is more likely to put the rest of us on edge by being obviously unhappy, although she will acknowledge that this is an issue she knows about and tries to avoid.

My exh was like this. Could really spoil anything with his moods. Also hated any special occasion that wasn’t about it.

It was horrible as he would be so up and down, and then wanted everyone else to be happy with him when he was in a good mood. But of course you can’t be when someone’s mood might turn on a sixpence.

So much happier without him.

I snapped that I was busy and he would have to do it later and he got all huffy that he was trying to help me with my quiz (that I hadn’t actually asked him to do) and what was my problem?

Oh, my dad does this. I'll say I've got something on (generally work) so I can't do X (eg. mow the lawn). He'll say that he'll do it for me then, but rather than just get on with it, he'll actually require me to be in and out showing him things, answering questions and generally disrupting the thing that I have to be doing. It's bloody frustrating.

As to why you stay with them - it's doesn't sound enough does it - it's like that article - she left me because I left my cup on the side. Sounds mad, but it's just the tip of an iceberg really. 'She left me because I wouldn't go on the caterpillar ride with my 3 year old' sounds silly, but when it's 'just like he wouldn't come with us to see Santa, has never been to a sportsday, wriggles out of every school pickup and performance, never takes them out on his own and parks them in front of the TV if he's in the house with them while I'm at work' then it's a whole other picture.

Yeah it's not surprising that this thread overwhelmingly focuses on being a fun sponge in a family/parenting dynamic on this site, but if you look at fun-sponge behaviour in social dynamics outside the family, you couldn't say it's an inherently male trait at all.

I also want to point out that some parents do the enforced-jollity thing on their children as well as their spouses and that can be equally annoying, if not toxic. I was a quiet, introverted child who mostly wanted to be sat indoors curled up with a book or, as a teenager, listening to my music. But my parents, and particularly my mother, wanted the whole public image of a family who were always out and about having "fun" as a family - going to shows I hated, community events I found dull, church which I didn't believe in. I was the one, not my dad, being accused of ruining it for everyone. It was insufferable.

I think it's often related to this meme.

I think the stress of Christmas shines a light on this issue.
Christmas was totally joyless in our house growing up and I was determined not to repeat the pattern. I haven't in terms of the trauma, however, there is a low level of engagement in anything to do with Christmas from my partner which is disappointing. Anything associated with Christmas, or anything he doesn't want to do, is seen as a pain in the backside whatever the time of year.
As most women have said on here given I do 99 per cent of everything associated with Christmas (including for my partner's family as well) it is draining as I find I am always having to have double the level of energy and excitement in the hope others won't see in my partner what I see.
I think I am just going to start being more honest with others in terms of not attending social events or attending on my own as I am running out of energy to deal with the situation.
My partner is only happy when working, pursuing his own hobbies or watching what he wants to watch on TV.
Maybe we would all be better off single, living apart and just 'dating'! 🤣

@oldladywithdog this is exactly the case - the lady who said well why did we marry them then- we married them because they rarely start off this way -it somehow creeps in after many years of marriage in many , with or without kids- it's like the 'real' them is suddenly on show- I think many men ( and some women) become very old before their time, I see it on the threads here with people desparate to get down to retirement and the Daily Mail and garden centres at 51 - we rarely marry funsponges unless one ourselves- we end up with them.

@Sincerelyours put him in your phone as that- lol!!

I know exactly what you mean. I know 2 men like this.

My DF made everything fun and used to love doing anything with me or my DS. My DM was the miserable one. The air used to change whenever, rarely she did anything with us or me.

It's about doing stuff that your DC enjoy. I stood on the sidelines at numerous football matches every Saturday for years often in the cold because my DS was in a team. I sat through all the Pokémon movies. I took him on trips to see things he was interested in.

Your DC will remember his lack of joy and involvement. I'd just do things the two of you.

I think this comes down to whether it's deliberate or simply evidence of a lack of emotional intelligence.

My DH for example is a very thoughtful considerate person but when stressed himself can very occasionally stray into this. I call him out on it and he bucks up his ideas. That's how you know it's not deliberate. He's never ruined an event or come close to it as a result.

I have had a look at the book another post recommended called Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft, looks very interesting.
Thinking of asking my DP for a copy for Christmas, can't wait to see his reaction if I do! 🤣

I was 8 when I knew I never wanted to get married, witnessing the daily dynamic between my parents. I thought that marriage was the shortest path to misery. On some level I still feel that way.

My mother was definitely a martyr and would keep doing house duties even if she was sick or in pain. This would ofcourse couse more pain, till she finally would be in bed crying with an overdosis of painkillers.

My father had a very short fuse and especially if we were preparing to go somewhere would blow up at people or situations. All too often all of us were crying, except for him, before leaving the house. This would then require some "peacemaking" as either my mother or father or both no longer wanted to go, till we finally left the house, late as usualy, sometimes still with a bad atmosphere in the car.

I could go on, but I am glad my childhood is behind me and I am also glad I had the good sense never to get married. It's not that marriage never works, but people from families with such a dynamic inadvertently tend to recreate what they grew up in, as my parents did.

This has resonated with me ever since I first heard it:

I just got back from a winter break with 3 other families. We all have children of varying ages.

And it was just SO obvious and apparent that the women were doing the majority of the work.

The mums were the ones coming up with the ideas and adding the magic - hot chocolate, movie nights, baking cookies etc. My husband and the others just observed so much it - it’s really upset me actually. We’re all professionals who work full time. Why should the dad’s do less work? Some of the men cooked dinners but they made such a faff of it. And were thoroughly impressed by themselves.

Don’t think the mums really sat down during the day. The dads were often on the balcony chatting whilst we dealt with lost socks and putting on gloves.

Terrible really.

I had a father and mother like this. As children, myself and my two brothers were made to feel like we were being 'unreasonable' for wanting to do what our friends, schoolmates etc were doing - going to the cinema, going to the pool, meeting up with friends, seeing our uncles, cousins, grandparents etc... as for outings as a family? Forget it. I can still myself as a 13 year old, on the beach one weekend with my brothers, and my father - in a suit and tie FFS in 35 degree Oz summer heat - giving us 30 minutes before marching on and demanding we leave. I can still see the looks we were getting from the surrounding people...

In my case neither parent actually enjoyed being parents. My father hadn't wanted children in the first place and was basically 'oopsed' by my Catholic mother. He managed to do the 'family man' act until my older brother was 10 and then got jobs working abroad to avoid family life altogether for 12 years, until he left my mother when younger brother had turned 18. My narc mother had always put her marriage before her children and had always gone along with whatever he wanted. Yeah, that worked out for her, didn't it?

I feel for your child. Having a miserable grumpy man as a parent doesn't set you up well for future relationships with the sex going forward. You both deserve better.

Exactly. Before you marry them you're living an entirely different life when you largely do as you please. They don't have to spend bank holidays at the petting farm, and Sundays are pub lunches not soft play. It's the time of their lives, so what do they have to sacrifice, compromise or be miserable about? I think the idea that you should have known spectacularly misses this.

It also puts the blame on women, as per usual, for men’s shit behaviour.

Or we get trite replies saying it’s rubbish and doesn’t exist, or women are just as bad.

Anecdotally of the men I know well
enough to gauge this, 2/3 are grumpy bastards. Of the women I know, 1/4 are. So twice as many men are selfish grumps than not, while three times as many women are willing to be good natured for others than not. As if evident by this thread, I would wager that this is generally the case for most people.

Wel, my brother is a grumpy bastard but he's never been any different. He wasn't as bad when he was younger but, if you listened, the signs were all there.

I know a couple of men who are like this but they were the same in their 20s and 30s and long before children came along. They were always the sort of men who would do stuff if they wanted to but found reasons not to if they didn't. Always the sort of men who weren't quite as enthusiastic about their partner's interests as their own. Always the sort of men who were a bit selfish in some way.

People might become 'more' but they don't generally completely change.