To think that *Some men steal the joy

[Vodkaandpepsimax]

Out of life?

I see it around me, with friend’s husbands and then often have it at home with mine and also grew up with a dad who veered between super fun, very imaginative and funny to very grumpy…It would feel like a lot revolved around his mood, whereas mum stayed pretty constant (or pretended to be at least)
Yesterday, trying to get all christmassy (I enjoy it all and especially for dd, 6’s sake) went to a christmas event, Dh silent in the car, me singing along awkwardly with dd to a Mr Tumble xmas cd. It was very busy when we arrived, lots of time to park, yes annoying, but dh so moody about it, I offer to drive/park, he snaps back. Complains about queues for the hot chocolate…just takes the joy out of the experience. I’ve booked for just dd and I to go to see The Nutcracker as I know it will be a much nicer, special experience just us, but obviously need to do things as a family.
Anyone else in this situation

So interesting - I find it's been the mothers in my life (DM and MIL) who are the fun sponges - such martyrs, always moaning, you cannot do right for doing wrong. They refuse to say what they want, then sulk that they aren't enjoying whatever restaurant/activity we're all doing.

In discussions with my DH I have certainly expressed how much he saps fun and joy from life, and how he doesn't bring any 'life and soul' of his own. I've seen it in many, many relationships, not just my own. They start off all fun, with a pleasant personality (why else do we marry them), and then become very, very boring indeed. It's a chronic issue that leads to resentment. I have a friend divorcing right now for this very reason.

Some people suck the joy out of life. It isn't sex based.

My dh wasn’t like this when we met, he also used to make an effort to plan holidays, date nights. Over the years it’s all dropped off to the point he’s very happy just not leaving the house. When I do book things he’ll often start snapping at people on the day, so by the time we leave in the car there’s tension. It’s bloody awful and I’ve read him the riot act. He’s getting therapy which I hope helps, but it’s soul destroying as I’m a fairly happy, optimistic person who wants to have fun with my kids!

i find this too. It can be a boiling frog thing where of course in the first few years of a relationship they can pull the enthusiasm out of the bag mostly but it really comes to the fore when dc are involved (and inevitably the list of “things I don’t especially want to do but should” increases along with additional hassle of dc wrangling). It’s also harder to split with them at that point of course especially when it’s “not that bad”.

its really visible as a friend and I go on a child centred long weekend each year. We are just generally happy, everything is easy, even if dc are a bit grumpy, we just jolly along and nobody is grumpy for long. Things don’t always go to plan but we just sort it out and don’t stress over small things and don’t blame each other. We have often been told by the staff how happy/glowing we look! I felt a bit weird when a member of staff there first said that but then looked around and realised that for many women there they were managing all the dc stuff, housework, cooking, mental load, child stuff etc plus their grumpy DP’s emotions. I guess it could be the case that 2 male friends could go together and experience a happy easy stress free few days both pitching in but I’ve never seen it 🤔.

Yes I do. They get away with miserable behaviour that ruins things for their families and that would see a woman dispensed with very quickly if the boot were on the other foot. It's just another example of the low bar for mens behaviour, because there are so many worse things they could do than be miserable (be abusive, alcoholics, cheat, not work, be deadbeat...) women will overlook it because, well, at least he's on the day out with us, Brian down the road is always out on his bike, doesnt bother at all. Or worse, frame it as some sort of cutesy grumpy old man stereotype that is inevitable and a thing to laugh about.

My dad was absolutely like this, and sadly so was every man I dated.

I'm now single.

The sheer selfishness just kills me. Oh BOOHOO You don't like queueing in noisy places? WHO DOES? AS another poster said , men seem to be born without the 'suck it up ability'

I'm afraid I agree that most men are selfish and put themselves first. Not all, I know a whole range, but, if there's a scale, men are at the selfish end.

I have what I think of as the mug test. When someone comes to my house and I offer them a cuppa - the majority of women, when done, walk over to the sink and put their mug there. The majority of men leave it wherever they are when they get up. It's not unanimous, and I realise I'm the host and so there's not actually an expectation that the mug comes to the kitchen, and yet, women take it to the kitchen normally, and men don't.

Have a read of 'Why does he do that?' free pdf available online. This behaviour is in that book.

My dad was always the fun one, always in a good mood. My mum was the complete opposite.

Mu husband too, is always sunny and up for anything. I’ll be the one moaning!

This is it.
But it can be dealt with.
Speak to them about it.
If you tolerate it, it gets worse.

Better to be straight out with it and ask them are they done?
Would they prefer not to be together as they are behaving as if they don't want to be together and it is better to be honest as you really don't want a future with an unhappy man.

Unchallenged it will get worse and makes for a miserable childhood.
I know, my father was like this.
He was genuinely surprised when his children faded him out of their lives once they left home.
He was joyless growing up and when they had a choice they avoided him.

Fortunately I did not marry a man like my father.
It's not all men sure, but it is a lot of men.

Right.

I mean, there are no consequences. These shit men still get sex, domestic labour, the woman's financial contributions and kids.

Until women raise the bar and start rejecting these selfish, juvenile oafs, why would they change? Unfortunately no matter how lowdown a man is, there is always a woman desperate enough to tolerate him. We see that every day.

That's absolutely fine when you only have responsibility for yourself.
If you have a partner, family or dependents then sometimes you do things you don't enjoy for their benefit.
The problem is when people (more often men) grow up thinking their right not to do anything they don't enjoy is more important than the happiness or wellbeing of their partner and children.

Interesting, that you have recreated your parents dynamic of the far less typical moaning woman. Suggests an element of learned behaviour. Perhaps children growing up watching their dads get away with this, and girls watching their mums try to salvage the day take it forward into their own relationships.

I have one of these sadly. I reached the end of my tether this summer about lots of things and gave him an ultimatum. He is trying… but it seems some things are just in his nature. It seems that the more happy an event is meant to be, the more grumpy he has to be about it.

For example, he ruins putting the Christmas tree up every year with his unexplained moods (or “illnesses”). This year he said he’d get the stuff down, and work on my quiz that I was setting up for an event. Fine, I thought. He can do what he wants and DS and I can enjoy putting the tree up. Except he moaned that DS put A Christmas Carol on when he wanted Home Alone, baring in mind none of us were really watching it. Then he kept asking me to google pictures for my quiz, so sit on my phone instead of doing the tree with DS. In the end, I snapped that I was busy and he would have to do it later and he got all huffy that he was trying to help me with my quiz (that I hadn’t actually asked him to do) and what was my problem?

When we have people around at Christmas, he gets really stressed out and grumpy wanting the house to be perfect and stressing over the cooking (that he suddenly wants to become involved in once there’s an audience!). I’ve told him this year his parents can only come for breakfast on Christmas Eve if he doesn’t stress and get grumpy. One year, my parents came for Christmas Day. We took the dog for a walk and he got a few muddy paw prints on the living room carpet that I quickly cleaned up. DH decided that he needed to clean the carpet with the actual carpet cleaners… on Christmas Day!! My parents have 3 dogs and couldn’t give a shit about a few muddy paw prints plus all that happened was we had a wet carpet all day 🙈.

He also manages to manufacture an argument a few days before my or his birthday every year. It’s like he can’t cope with happiness!

I had a boyfriend like this, it was utterly draining. He wouldn’t even be embarrassed acting like this in front of my family or friends. Everything is on their terms, they won’t tolerate anything for anyone’s sake. Am now single and have absolutely no intention of changing that status. I hear the same stories from my friends and I breathe a sigh of relief.

My ex was like this!! Unless it was all about him he was miserable!

With this particular example, it's a tough one. Because women are generally not going to become single parents because their partner moans on days out. Unlike the more obvious bad behaviour its more subtle and insidious, and often hard to put your finger on and challenge, especially in light of the usual gaslighting that goes on around it "There's nothing wrong with me! I did want to come! I can be quiet can't I? It's you starting on me...I've said nothing wrong (because I've stood there with a face on not speaking to any of you for most if the day) You always have to pick a fight and then you accuse me of ruining it"

I am the most miserable bitch on the face of this earth. Left to my own devices, I’d be a dementor, I’d suck the fun and life out of everything as I see the world as a bleak, dark place.

BUT, I’m a fucking fantastic actor and also, not a massive wanker, so I put a lid on it and no one would ever know my true, black heart. I won’t ruin things for other people, especially not my children.

My husband can be a miserable prick. I just tell him he’s being an annoying bastard, and either plaster on a smile and act like little mister fun time, like I do so I don’t poison the world for everyone else, or to piss off home and do what he wants.

He’s not really being miserable about the event. He’s miserable as he wants to please himself and sit in his pants playing Xbox like an overgrown teenager, so takes it out in the situation. The difference is, I don’t pander to him now. I tell him that he obviously made a bad life choice having a family, stick with it and try to enjoy family life, leave, or just sit on your own and we’ll have fun without you. My life is too short to worry about him acting moody.

My friends beautiful daughter has a moody boyfriend and she's only 18. Their train was cancelled and instead of making the best of it he took his mood out on her the whole way down. She's beautiful and a great person, much more so than him.

And yet...

How are these women being raised, that they would settle for such shitty behaviour??

For a lot of women still, they're raised to need a partner, marriage, kids, so as to be 'wanted', 'normal' and not the still somewhat taboo single woman.

My ex would suck the joy out of anything - even something he wanted to do, such as a day out at a county show. He was into horses and farming so whilst talking to others about fetlocks and udders he would be delightfully engaging, but anything the dcs wanted to see he'd be frigging miserable.

He seemed to resent anyone else enjoying themselves. Even if we (dc and I) were having a laugh at home he'd come in and make a cutting comment.

The mood of the home lifted considerably once he'd gone - just so lovely not to be constantly criticised.

It is if you inflict your grumpiness on your family so you have them treading on eggshells around you.

No one is going to be thrilled about boring jobs like fixing the loo (or doing the laundry, or a million other jobs that have to be done), but most reasonable adults would just get on with it without making everyone else's evening miserable.

To be honest, it just sounds like you and your husband don't really like a) the same things or b) each other.