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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want to see my friend without her toddler?

272 replies

harrietmg · 07/12/2024 14:01

I’ve been friends with her since primary school, over 20 years, and we’ve always been super close. We were each other’s maids of honor, and she’s one of my best friends. Since having her daughter, Sophie (2.5 years old), she insists on bringing her to every meet-up. At first, it made sense because Sophie was breastfed. Now, she says she doesn’t want to miss any time with her daughter, and lately, she frames it as “so fun” to have Sophie along now that she’s move grownup, calling her “another one of the besties” who enjoys our outings and is “part of the gang”.

The reality is less fun. Brunches involve constant interruptions: “Don’t touch that,” “Let me wipe your hands,” “Don’t shout,” “Get down before you fall,” or “Don’t hug Aunty Harriet with jammy hands.” While I understand this is normal toddler behavior, it’s hard to relax or have a proper conversation when I’m dodging sticky hugs or watching her manage Sophie the whole time.

When I’ve suggested meeting without Sophie, she always says, “I don’t want to miss her childhood because of brunch.” We’ve tried playground meet-ups, but those mostly consist of us running after Sophie to keep her safe while barely talking. I love children, but sometimes I just want time with her. For her sake too: she’s mentioned losing 90% of her friends because “if someone doesn’t want to spend time with my child, they aren’t a true friend.”

She has a nanny-housekeeper four days a week and regularly asks her mum to babysit when she and her husband go on date nights (about once a month), but otherwise, she refuses to leave Sophie. I’ve suggested meeting after Sophie’s bedtime or letting her husband put Sophie to bed, but she says she doesn’t want to miss bedtime, and by then, it’s too late to go anywhere.

I have two children of my own (a 5-year-old and a 9-month-old) so I understand the challenges of maintaining pre-motherhood friendships as a parent. But I’m also conscious that, as lovely as my children are, they’re not necessarily welcome at every social gathering. I’ve always made an effort to respect that.

Now, she’s asked if she can bring Sophie to my 30th, a 7 pm dinner at a high-end restaurant, then leave halfway through when Sophie gets tired. I love Sophie, but I don’t think it’s fair to have a toddler crying, running around, or throwing food (as toddlers do) at what’s meant to be a special evening with friends.

OP posts:
Couldntthinkofausername24 · 12/12/2024 04:08

Jesus christ this would drive me potty

I have two children under 5 who I love with every inch of my being. I also love time away from them and crave more. I love the 5 seconds of peace it takes me from strapping them in to the car and walking round to the drivers side. I love putting them to bed and having some me time

She sounds bonkers @harrietmg

Hope you have a lovely 30th regardless of the woman sat at the end of the table crying in to her drink 😬😬

Noodles1234 · 12/12/2024 06:05

Crikey, she sounds intense, some parents do get very attached, overall it’s not healthy for either them or the child. I get missing them, but this is a different level.
Flat no to meal, as in 121 meet ups, be blunt and say you’d rather leave kids at home and when she is ready for that to let you know. Some friendships change over time and maybe she needs for her daughter to be a little older, if of course her friends are prepared to wait.

whatnow5 · 12/12/2024 06:23

harrietmg · 07/12/2024 20:11

To everyone saying I should take this as a sign that our friendship is fading… I hear you. And maybe, deep down, I know this might be where our paths begin to part. But it’s so hard to accept because this isn’t just anyone—this is my best friend. She’s the girl who stood by me through every messy teen boyfriend drama, the only person I told when I first met my husband and couldn’t stop gushing about him. I was helped her husband plan and execute her proposal. She’s the girl I traveled with during my gap year, my first housemate when we moved for our “big girl” jobs, my maid of honor, my child’s godmother, the wife of my husband’s good friend. Even our parents are friends.

There’s so much love and history here, so many memories we’ve created together, that I want to make it work. But maybe I’m holding onto a version of us that's in the past

And she’s willing to miss your 30th birthday, which only happens once, because there’s only so many bedtimes.

She sucks OP, sorry. I think all the other people who’ve dropped her are right.

Bamboozledbylife · 12/12/2024 06:27

That poor child isn't going to know what to do when she starts nursery or school. My youngest was the clingiest mummy child ever, but I had to leave her to help her build relationships with her dad and grandparents. She needed that and so did I!
Of course there's a fear of missing things, but the odd few hours here and there are going to benefit them both.

ScarfsAndHats · 12/12/2024 06:30

harrietmg · 07/12/2024 14:12

I said "no", to which she didn't reply anything at the time but then messaged that, she didn't want to say anything in front of Sophie, but it's making her heart tear as a parent. As much as she'd like to celebrate me, she knows that this would mean missing a bedtime and there's only so many times Sophie will want to be put to bed, you blink and she'll be too old. So yes she will come but will likely be thinking of Sophie most of the time anyway (her words)

Tell her you understand if she decides not to come, but that it is a hard no for the toddler at your 30th.

is there a particular reason your friend says stuff like “not wanting to miss a bedtime”, “they’re grown up before you know it” ? Has she lost a child? Or knows someone whose child died? Could it be that she doesn’t trust her husband with the child? While I understand not wanting to miss your children growing up, she sounds a bit unstable. If your friendship is strong enough I’d consider asking her if she is ok and why she is so worried about missing something. That her behaviour, while partly understandable, is worrisome.

CosyLemur · 12/12/2024 06:48

I don't think either of you are being unreasonable.
She's parenting and socialising how she wants to, and your parenting and socialising how you want to.
Also did she have PND after Sophie was born? Because this is how I was after I'd recovered from PND I felt so guilty for the times when I physically couldn't do the things a mum should be doing that I over compensated afterwards and for a while refused to go anywhere without him. And like your friend I felt guilty if I missed even a single bedtime.

needsomewarmsunshine · 12/12/2024 07:08

"Friend, you are a mum to your daughter Sophie not a bestie you numpty." Sophie is likely to grow up thinking the world revolves around her and be a pita as she gets older unless mum reframes the relationship - mum and daughter.
NRTFT but guess Sophia is a pfb.

CosyLemur · 12/12/2024 07:10

My second thought is did she go through anything traumatic as a child such as SA seeing as she doesn't want Sophie's dad doing bath time, potty, bedtime etc? Is she worried something like that will happen to her daughter.

Gardenbird123 · 12/12/2024 07:49

Sounds like a bit of mum guilt to me.
I would put up with the meet ups if you don't want to lose a friend, but a definite no to bringing a toddler to your birthday meal - that is your time, not the toddlers.

CautiousLurker01 · 12/12/2024 08:12

harrietmg · 07/12/2024 14:12

I said "no", to which she didn't reply anything at the time but then messaged that, she didn't want to say anything in front of Sophie, but it's making her heart tear as a parent. As much as she'd like to celebrate me, she knows that this would mean missing a bedtime and there's only so many times Sophie will want to be put to bed, you blink and she'll be too old. So yes she will come but will likely be thinking of Sophie most of the time anyway (her words)

Late to this thread - but you were right to decline the presence of a toddler at an evening event. Fine at a lunch, but an evening dinner where people want to drink and relax away from their own children? Seriously unfair on all guests/other patrons.

Her reply indicates that she is overly enmeshed. I am/was an anxious, over involved parent (my kids are ND and had issues with school at various points, so I justified it to myself for years), but even I can see that her attachment to her child is actually unhealthy. It is concerning that she cannot see that it is wholly inappropriate to a) bring a very young child into a largely adult space where they are in party mode/drinking (I know things are different in parts of Europe, but we are in the UK) or b) try to emotionally manipulate you by laying on the guilt-inducing narrative.

I know you love this friend, but I think you may need to recognise that parenthood has changed her and that she may not be the same person you once knew.

Justmyopinionbut · 12/12/2024 08:46

This is actually a really sad post. Sophie is going to grow up thinking she is the centre of the universe and all this attention could really backfire. However, it sounds like you've done all your can to try and show her that life can go on without being attached to your child 24/7 and she's not buying it. She's quite likely to burn out at some point as we all know parenting is exhausting! Like you've done, you've set your boundaries on not wanting children at your dinner and given her the space to not attend but on your terms. She will need to make a choice. Sounds to me like she's an educated woman who, slightly unplanned, became a mother, and has discarded her previous self completely and is actually really lost. She's clinging into being a mother for dear life as she's got no idea who she is now. I'd give space, set your boundaries and as the good friend you are, probably just wait until you need to help pick up the pieces.

JillMW · 12/12/2024 09:57

Definitely no to the birthday dinner. I would be peeved at the child coming to brunches, I love children, have my own and babysit lots but sometimes a quiet catch up is good for everyone.
One thought I have is could there be a possibility that your friend is suffering from anxiety or depression? Sometimes this can make it very difficult for a parent to leave a child as they worry about every possible scenario. If that is not the case then I would pull back and text or telephone, pointless going out for brunch that is not a fun relaxing time.

Wherearethewaves · 12/12/2024 12:12

Friendships fluctuate over time with what else is going on in your lives- it's ok for there to be times when you see each other less- you'll pick things back up when your situations are different in the future... In a couple of years her daughter will be at school and you'll be able to meet for child free lunches again...

FestiveFruitloop · 12/12/2024 12:21

ItsVeryComplicated · 08/12/2024 13:55

I think it's okay for her to want to be with her child. Why don't you invite her to the other party you're having, where your children will also be present?

Wanting to be with her child is one thing, but do you think it's OK the way she's insisting on not being parted from her child for a single moment? You don't think that might be a bit stifling/suffocating for the child, quite apart from the way she's letting her obsession with her child dominate her friendships as well?

LuckySantangelo35 · 12/12/2024 12:30

FestiveFruitloop · 12/12/2024 12:21

Wanting to be with her child is one thing, but do you think it's OK the way she's insisting on not being parted from her child for a single moment? You don't think that might be a bit stifling/suffocating for the child, quite apart from the way she's letting her obsession with her child dominate her friendships as well?

@ItsVeryComplicated

its not ok or healthy for her to want to be with her child 24/7

Zoomy100 · 12/12/2024 13:05

Annabella92 · 07/12/2024 14:04

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all

Omg, totally not unreasonable. Tell her no. Frame it that it wouldn’t be fair on Sophie and that she deserves to have a grown up night. Sounds a bit extreme on her part so maybe she’s succeeding from post natal depression or something so thread lightly with her.

Jennaxoxox · 12/12/2024 13:24

Im a mam (2boys 13 and16, so I do understand but “if someone doesn’t want to spend time with my child, they aren’t a true friend" is just not true! I have friends with kids and whilst we spent time with them all together there's many occasions that we don't take any 🤣. I have a friend that has no kids and whilst she would never say, I knew when my kids were small they were her worst nightmare 🤣🤣. Was I offended? Absolutely not! Your friend needs to find a balance or she will lose ALL of her friends. There's nothing worse than other people's kids 🤣 we all know this, and I bet she feels the same 🤣

NikNak321 · 12/12/2024 13:27

Enko · 07/12/2024 14:14

Cross post. I think you are just going to have to allow her to withdraw but keep your line of communication open so she can come back when she is ready.

Yeah this ☝️☝️☝️. Your in very different places for now. Maybe meet up infrequently with both sets of children every now and again to maintain the friendship. Maybe when all her children are at school/ older she can learn to relax a bit 👍

TinyFlamingo · 12/12/2024 13:27

Could you invite her a Sophie to the family meal with kids?

I'd say, to hear my heart is tearing. "I'm only 30 once, and it's tearing my heart up that you can't show up for your oldest friend for a landmark birthday.
It will deeply hurt me if you don't prioritise celebrating this with me."

Generally, to her missing her childhood stuff:

I don't want to miss our friendship, because you're a parent. I'm happy to do most meet ups with Sophie, but I need 1 that's just us every 6m to be 1:1 so we can maintain our close friendship and be really present for each other which we can't do when we both bring our children. I don't really think this is asking too much is it?

Katbum · 12/12/2024 13:50

‘It’s an adult event, so Sophie can’t come. I get it if you can’t make it either but would love you to be there.’

Arty40 · 12/12/2024 13:51

My first thought was " come on, before you know it she'll be at school"
But upon reading, your friend sounds really anxious, it sounds more like mum has maternal separation anxiety., which is common.
Maybe go to hers, when her DD is occupied open conversation, sometimes friends without children can be a great sounding board.
She sounds like she needs you, you sound like your in a perfect position and a good friend to lend an ear, read up about it aswell.
She'll get through it with a little help.

Good luck,

Starlight1979 · 12/12/2024 14:04

harrietmg · 07/12/2024 14:12

I said "no", to which she didn't reply anything at the time but then messaged that, she didn't want to say anything in front of Sophie, but it's making her heart tear as a parent. As much as she'd like to celebrate me, she knows that this would mean missing a bedtime and there's only so many times Sophie will want to be put to bed, you blink and she'll be too old. So yes she will come but will likely be thinking of Sophie most of the time anyway (her words)

Fuck off!!!! She did not say that 😂

Hocuspoc · 12/12/2024 14:18

harrietmg · 07/12/2024 14:01

I’ve been friends with her since primary school, over 20 years, and we’ve always been super close. We were each other’s maids of honor, and she’s one of my best friends. Since having her daughter, Sophie (2.5 years old), she insists on bringing her to every meet-up. At first, it made sense because Sophie was breastfed. Now, she says she doesn’t want to miss any time with her daughter, and lately, she frames it as “so fun” to have Sophie along now that she’s move grownup, calling her “another one of the besties” who enjoys our outings and is “part of the gang”.

The reality is less fun. Brunches involve constant interruptions: “Don’t touch that,” “Let me wipe your hands,” “Don’t shout,” “Get down before you fall,” or “Don’t hug Aunty Harriet with jammy hands.” While I understand this is normal toddler behavior, it’s hard to relax or have a proper conversation when I’m dodging sticky hugs or watching her manage Sophie the whole time.

When I’ve suggested meeting without Sophie, she always says, “I don’t want to miss her childhood because of brunch.” We’ve tried playground meet-ups, but those mostly consist of us running after Sophie to keep her safe while barely talking. I love children, but sometimes I just want time with her. For her sake too: she’s mentioned losing 90% of her friends because “if someone doesn’t want to spend time with my child, they aren’t a true friend.”

She has a nanny-housekeeper four days a week and regularly asks her mum to babysit when she and her husband go on date nights (about once a month), but otherwise, she refuses to leave Sophie. I’ve suggested meeting after Sophie’s bedtime or letting her husband put Sophie to bed, but she says she doesn’t want to miss bedtime, and by then, it’s too late to go anywhere.

I have two children of my own (a 5-year-old and a 9-month-old) so I understand the challenges of maintaining pre-motherhood friendships as a parent. But I’m also conscious that, as lovely as my children are, they’re not necessarily welcome at every social gathering. I’ve always made an effort to respect that.

Now, she’s asked if she can bring Sophie to my 30th, a 7 pm dinner at a high-end restaurant, then leave halfway through when Sophie gets tired. I love Sophie, but I don’t think it’s fair to have a toddler crying, running around, or throwing food (as toddlers do) at what’s meant to be a special evening with friends.

I don't think your friend is being completely honest. Checking the different instances of her outings that you mention against her decision to bring the child along or not, it seems that she is OK leaving the child with someone if her husband is also going out with her. The reasons may vary:

  • at the time when you are meeting up, her husband is available so he offers to babysit and she doesn't trust him with the baby or
  • because he has nothing to do he is guilt tripping her how she'd rather spend time with friends than with her own child - which ofcourse is not a problem for him if that other person is him and they are going out
  • if he is at home he is not keen of paying for additional help since he's already home, which brings me again to - she doesn't trust her child staying alone under his care

Do mind - I am not suggesting he is violent or physically abusive, it may just be he is one of those immature guys who don't go to a single class or tak any interest in how to take care of a child. And while he may have best intentions - he may for example feed child a shrimp before they established there is no allergy (because he thinks he knows best), yet refuses to take a first aid course....
These things happen. What is odd is why your friend - if you are so close- wouldn't talk about this and perhaps ask for advice...
Anyway - bunch of assumptions from me, but pretty plausible based on the examples you gave.

WendyA22 · 12/12/2024 15:00

harrietmg · 07/12/2024 14:01

I’ve been friends with her since primary school, over 20 years, and we’ve always been super close. We were each other’s maids of honor, and she’s one of my best friends. Since having her daughter, Sophie (2.5 years old), she insists on bringing her to every meet-up. At first, it made sense because Sophie was breastfed. Now, she says she doesn’t want to miss any time with her daughter, and lately, she frames it as “so fun” to have Sophie along now that she’s move grownup, calling her “another one of the besties” who enjoys our outings and is “part of the gang”.

The reality is less fun. Brunches involve constant interruptions: “Don’t touch that,” “Let me wipe your hands,” “Don’t shout,” “Get down before you fall,” or “Don’t hug Aunty Harriet with jammy hands.” While I understand this is normal toddler behavior, it’s hard to relax or have a proper conversation when I’m dodging sticky hugs or watching her manage Sophie the whole time.

When I’ve suggested meeting without Sophie, she always says, “I don’t want to miss her childhood because of brunch.” We’ve tried playground meet-ups, but those mostly consist of us running after Sophie to keep her safe while barely talking. I love children, but sometimes I just want time with her. For her sake too: she’s mentioned losing 90% of her friends because “if someone doesn’t want to spend time with my child, they aren’t a true friend.”

She has a nanny-housekeeper four days a week and regularly asks her mum to babysit when she and her husband go on date nights (about once a month), but otherwise, she refuses to leave Sophie. I’ve suggested meeting after Sophie’s bedtime or letting her husband put Sophie to bed, but she says she doesn’t want to miss bedtime, and by then, it’s too late to go anywhere.

I have two children of my own (a 5-year-old and a 9-month-old) so I understand the challenges of maintaining pre-motherhood friendships as a parent. But I’m also conscious that, as lovely as my children are, they’re not necessarily welcome at every social gathering. I’ve always made an effort to respect that.

Now, she’s asked if she can bring Sophie to my 30th, a 7 pm dinner at a high-end restaurant, then leave halfway through when Sophie gets tired. I love Sophie, but I don’t think it’s fair to have a toddler crying, running around, or throwing food (as toddlers do) at what’s meant to be a special evening with friends.

Are your children going?

Tandora · 12/12/2024 15:14

Dear god OP she sounds insufferable 😆🤣. I suppose there’s not much you can do if she won’t meet up with you without her tot , but grin and bear it, and make it clear that for things you have organised and invited her to- like your bday- they are strictly child free. It’s up to her if she chooses to attend or not.
I wouldn’t end the friendship- it’s a phase and she may be struggling mentally. She’ll get over it soon enough and then will be irritated when others do the same to her 😂- she may never connect the dots of course. It sucks that your friendship has to change for a bit, but just be there for her in this phase and I’m sure it will be back soon enough. X