To want to see my friend without her toddler?

[harrietmg]

I’ve been friends with her since primary school, over 20 years, and we’ve always been super close. We were each other’s maids of honor, and she’s one of my best friends. Since having her daughter, Sophie (2.5 years old), she insists on bringing her to every meet-up. At first, it made sense because Sophie was breastfed. Now, she says she doesn’t want to miss any time with her daughter, and lately, she frames it as “so fun” to have Sophie along now that she’s move grownup, calling her “another one of the besties” who enjoys our outings and is “part of the gang”.

The reality is less fun. Brunches involve constant interruptions: “Don’t touch that,” “Let me wipe your hands,” “Don’t shout,” “Get down before you fall,” or “Don’t hug Aunty Harriet with jammy hands.” While I understand this is normal toddler behavior, it’s hard to relax or have a proper conversation when I’m dodging sticky hugs or watching her manage Sophie the whole time.

When I’ve suggested meeting without Sophie, she always says, “I don’t want to miss her childhood because of brunch.” We’ve tried playground meet-ups, but those mostly consist of us running after Sophie to keep her safe while barely talking. I love children, but sometimes I just want time with her. For her sake too: she’s mentioned losing 90% of her friends because “if someone doesn’t want to spend time with my child, they aren’t a true friend.”

She has a nanny-housekeeper four days a week and regularly asks her mum to babysit when she and her husband go on date nights (about once a month), but otherwise, she refuses to leave Sophie. I’ve suggested meeting after Sophie’s bedtime or letting her husband put Sophie to bed, but she says she doesn’t want to miss bedtime, and by then, it’s too late to go anywhere.

I have two children of my own (a 5-year-old and a 9-month-old) so I understand the challenges of maintaining pre-motherhood friendships as a parent. But I’m also conscious that, as lovely as my children are, they’re not necessarily welcome at every social gathering. I’ve always made an effort to respect that.

Now, she’s asked if she can bring Sophie to my 30th, a 7 pm dinner at a high-end restaurant, then leave halfway through when Sophie gets tired. I love Sophie, but I don’t think it’s fair to have a toddler crying, running around, or throwing food (as toddlers do) at what’s meant to be a special evening with friends.

I know it wasn't, I thought I'd comment anyway.

I just feel sorry for the friend. Yes her behaviour is ott and she may well look back in years to come and wonder what on earth she was doing but for now the op can't change anything so rather than criticise her she should just accept it, leave her to it and perhaps go low contact.

Concern is fine, nitpicking and judging aren't really kind with friends imo. She may well be extremely anxious so I'd cut her some slack.

I would actually suggest finding your anger a bit and expressing that to her. It might be worth saying - "it makes me sad and disappointed that you won't be there, because for no obvious reason you won't trust your husband" I think she needs to be told more explicitly that this isn't normal and she is being a shit friend

This!

There's a middle ground point here - which is to tell her that she says she tries not to judge mothers who go back to work or who use childcare. Equally, you could say that you try not to judge mothers who won't allow their child to be independent of them.

Sorry I’d find this very tedious. I had a friend like this, after she had her daughter it was impossible to have a conversation. I could see she wasn’t listening, all she was interested in was her child, who she took everywhere with her. I respect that’s her right and choice but it made her incredibly dull to spend time with and we’re no longer in touch.

And if she is anything like my SIL, the onus for it all will be on you too...calling at the wrong time, because child is doing X Y Z, can't do this or that you suggest because of child, can't eat just anywhere because of child's allergies etc...and yes, on that last point I accept that one is a big deal, but with 6 weeks notice of a meet up and full access to the internet, there really is no excuse for finding, researching, and booking a resturaunt well in advance.

This said, on the one and only occasion I put my foot down about the need to choose a venue well in advance (due to other attendees having needs that had to be met too, i.e. can't walk far from car to venue, can't stand for too long, can't be waiting in the cold outside while SIL scrutinises the menu for dramatically declaring "we can't eat here" and then standing around lapping up the drama while we question our next move) , she sat there with a face like a slapped arse, as no one needed to dwell on her daughter's ailments...for the record, said daughter never brings them up, it's her mother who thrives on them.

Urgh, sorry to hear that. It sounds no matter what you do, your friend will find a way to make Sophie the main focus of your catch-ups.

Honestly, I don't think there's any real solution here. Personally, I'd be pulling back from this friendship and seeing her only occasionally. Best case scenario, in a few years time, your friend will get some perspective, and want to spend a bit less time attached at the hip to Sophie. But that's not a given. My (former?) best friend sounds similar to yours - I made a post about her earlier this year. Always brings her young children (even though she has a husband and parents who can look after them). Always insists of doing very kid-friendly activities whenever we catch up, like going to playgrounds. My friend's eldest is nearly 8, but she shows no signs of changing her ways. It feels very one-sided after a while, and sadly, with these sorts of people, you can't really ask for catch-ups which are less kid-focused without them getting narky at you.

Sadly, I just can't see the OP's friend taking kindly to that.

OP, only say the above if you're prepared for your friend to accuse you of "not understanding", or that "her child comes first" and that you need to "deal with it", etc.

(Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with the sentiment, and your friend needs to hear it. But whether she'll listen is a different question.)

Heart tear as a parent 🤣🤣🤣🤣. I would struggle to listen to much of this nonsense. I would take a huge step back from this friendship. She sounds mental and much as l love my children / my friends children then l don’t always want them everywhere we go

Agree. I'd go so far as to suggest that it'll be like those posts you see about childfree weddings where the poster suggests that not inviting a baby is akin to trying to starve them all day or wanting to break their attachment bond.

She sounds like an absolute twit. I would have a huge challenge pandering to this nonsense.

I'm afraid I'd have to tell her. She's says shes lost her mates because they don't understand? No she's lost her mates because her behaviour is intolerable and ridiculous. It's pretty hard to understand a mindset that is so thoroughly tedious and over the top.

No child is not welcome at a restaurant in the evening it's inappropriate and your own children aren't even invited! If it's going to 'tear her heart' so badly then she should stay at home.

Future meeting up needs to be more balanced. Fine to see friend with child if you like but not all the time. If she's not prepared to give a little on this then I'd question the friendship.

What are you getting out of this friendship except for nostalgia over your shared history? Not much at the moment by the sound of it. Except a 2 year old 'bestie', foisted upon you against your will constantly. Ugh.

This. She doesn't want to miss any of Sophie when it suits her. She sounds quite manipulative

Your birthday? Absolutely not it’s a no

OP if she accuses you of not understanding, agree with her. Say you don't, and that's why you don't want her child at your birthday bash. She can't argue with that.

This just doesn't make sense to me. If she frowns on nurseries so much and can't bear to be apart from her DD, then why on earth does she have a nanny as opposed to a cleaner? Surely it would make more sense to be a traditional sahm and then have normal nights out with friends? I think she will feel much more guilty over the nanny than a bloody brunch if this is even true as I am starting to have my doubts now.

@sandrapinchedmysandwich This just doesn't make sense to me. If she frowns on nurseries so much and can't bear to be apart from her DD, then why on earth does she have a nanny as opposed to a cleaner? Surely it would make more sense to be a traditional sahm and then have normal nights out with friends? I think she will feel much more guilty over the nanny than a bloody brunch if this is even true as I am starting to have my doubts now.

The OP said the nanny is mostly a housekeeper and only used very sparingly as a nanny, if the mum has a gp appointment, or is taking a shower etc.

@sandrapinchedmysandwich I suspect that the nanny housekeeper thing is part of the obsession with the child. Can't possibly leave little Sophie for a minute to make lunch or put some washing on so housekeeper does that..and the nanny aspect similarly, god forbid Sophie's dad looks after her at all.

Nope nope nope

youre allowed to want what you want and make choices as an adult. She can also do so

so tell her you don’t want Sophie there and if she chooses not to come. Then so be it

She sounds like my batshit sil.

Whose dd is now 16 and wants absolutely nothing to do with ‘mummy’.

I think this is a bit weird from your friend. What is she going to do when Sophie goes to nursery/school?

Well quite.

She's setting little Sophie up to struggle terribly when she starts school, if nothing else. She'll wonder why the poor child has to be peeled off her leg crying in the mornings and it'll be all her own doing!

I think it will be the mum who needs to be peeled off!

If this is the way she is then I'd relegate her to a mum friend and just meet up with her with Sophie and your kids and do child centred things. Leaving your child free times to meet people who are also happy to meet up child free. This can't last forever, her child will eventually need time away from her mum, whether it's at school, hobbies, sleepovers with friends (though she may be someone who won't allow this).

She'll probably be the kind of mum who thinks her child crying and having to be peeled off her as a badge of honour, and proof that she is the world's best mother.

This is so bizarre that if you hadn't said such positive things about the dad I'd suspect she was afraid to leave her dd with him because she suspected abuse! But as it is, it just sounds like she had mental problems. She must realise this isn't normal.