To want to see my friend without her toddler?

[harrietmg]

I’ve been friends with her since primary school, over 20 years, and we’ve always been super close. We were each other’s maids of honor, and she’s one of my best friends. Since having her daughter, Sophie (2.5 years old), she insists on bringing her to every meet-up. At first, it made sense because Sophie was breastfed. Now, she says she doesn’t want to miss any time with her daughter, and lately, she frames it as “so fun” to have Sophie along now that she’s move grownup, calling her “another one of the besties” who enjoys our outings and is “part of the gang”.

The reality is less fun. Brunches involve constant interruptions: “Don’t touch that,” “Let me wipe your hands,” “Don’t shout,” “Get down before you fall,” or “Don’t hug Aunty Harriet with jammy hands.” While I understand this is normal toddler behavior, it’s hard to relax or have a proper conversation when I’m dodging sticky hugs or watching her manage Sophie the whole time.

When I’ve suggested meeting without Sophie, she always says, “I don’t want to miss her childhood because of brunch.” We’ve tried playground meet-ups, but those mostly consist of us running after Sophie to keep her safe while barely talking. I love children, but sometimes I just want time with her. For her sake too: she’s mentioned losing 90% of her friends because “if someone doesn’t want to spend time with my child, they aren’t a true friend.”

She has a nanny-housekeeper four days a week and regularly asks her mum to babysit when she and her husband go on date nights (about once a month), but otherwise, she refuses to leave Sophie. I’ve suggested meeting after Sophie’s bedtime or letting her husband put Sophie to bed, but she says she doesn’t want to miss bedtime, and by then, it’s too late to go anywhere.

I have two children of my own (a 5-year-old and a 9-month-old) so I understand the challenges of maintaining pre-motherhood friendships as a parent. But I’m also conscious that, as lovely as my children are, they’re not necessarily welcome at every social gathering. I’ve always made an effort to respect that.

Now, she’s asked if she can bring Sophie to my 30th, a 7 pm dinner at a high-end restaurant, then leave halfway through when Sophie gets tired. I love Sophie, but I don’t think it’s fair to have a toddler crying, running around, or throwing food (as toddlers do) at what’s meant to be a special evening with friends.

Could she attend the family/children celebration with her family? That way she could still celebrate but not spoil the adult only celebration.

Well done OP!

I had all my early adult milestone birthdays taken away from me by my siblings demanding my nieces and nephews attend. This resulted in everything being catered to the kids and not me.

Please don’t give her an opportunities!! If she wants to bring Sophie and won’t back down you may have to sacrifice this friendship for your sanity.

She is being incredibly selfish.

Fuck that. DO NOT relent and let her bring this kid to a 7pm dinner, it’s absolutely not fair on anyone there including the kid.
You can’t choose what kind of mother you will be, I’ve had friends that could not be separated from their child under any circumstances and so we did naturally grow apart during those years, nowadays things are different and we see each other more frequently again. But none of them managed to find time for monthly date nights with their partners during that time.

I had a friend like this who would bring her girls to our meet-ups....turns out in the end it was because her deadbeat partner refused to look after his own kids. She's left him now! Thank God!

Why on earth would anyone in their right mind want to do this?! One of my favourite things to do is eat out WITHOUT my DC. Your friend is crazy.

Just read that this isn't the case here with dad, who is a good-un!

I would leave it as is. You quite rightly don't want a toddler at your birthday night out. I doubt any of your friends would want them a toddler there either. If your friend can't be apart from her toddler for that time that's her issue not yours. She sounds hard work and Sophie is going to end up a nightmare child with a lot of anxiety if this nonsense carries on. Her marriage may also be at risk. It's not normal behaviour at all. It's actually quite unfair on the child as she isn't getting to build a proper relationship with her dad and her mum is going to suffocate her as she gets older.

It's hard to tell really but I do get a bit of a "martyr mum" vibe with her - she often says that a child needs their mum more than anything, how irresponsible to dump a child at nursery, she'd rather spend 24/7 with Sophie than put her in someone else's care and that no one will do as good a job for a child as the mum.
We are both SAHMs so I'm not sure if she says it as a way to validate her choices "well done us", if she says it as something to bond over and kind of compliment "well done we are both doing a great job".

Almost word for word, except the kids name has been sdded

I am 99% sure the husband is fine with staying. He's volunteered in front of me, she's said he's ok to look after Sophie but she doesn't think he will do as good a job as her, I'd say I know him quite well (we lived together for a year, although a while back) and I really don't feel like he'd be refusing.

But then again, you never know 100% what goes on behind closed doors and people can change.

She's a SAH with a nanny 4 days a week??

And sorry I haven’t read the responses. But you have 2 of your own children, are they coming to your birthday meal? If not, then it’s a very easy no.

She sounds like a suffocating mother. Poor Sophie.

I've come at it from a different angle, but yes I've spoken to her DH. I said I'm concerned for her mental health - mums need me time, I struggle to believe any mum can stay sane whilst being in "mum mode" all day every day.

He said yeah, he also thinks it's unhealthy and he wishes he could be trusted more, but alas she's set in her ways and wants this to be the way it is.

I have to add he's quite passive, doesn't like confrontation and often just goes along with what she does. She's more assertive and "wears the trousers".

I think it it were me, I would just say no to the bday. Say even my own children aren't coming, I'd really prefer it to be a grown up affair.

Then going forward still see her, but accept that baby is going to be there. I'd try to maintain the friendship more with messages and sending girfts/cards when appropriate, wait it out till kids in school and hopefully it will get easier to her alone then. (Obviously I don't know you working situation) but maybe she'll loosen up a bit when she's not with Sophie 24/7

I probably wouldn't mention how you feel but just alter you expectations of what she can give you as a friend at this time. Can't imagine what she's going through if this is how she's acting, but I get the feeling dropping her wouldn't make you feel good either.

Can I come to brunch and your birthday without my toddler please?? Sounds delightful!

She is makeing your birthday all about her feelings. Ridiculous. She asked if Sophie could come you say no which is completely fair and she responds to tell you its tearing her heart apart? Look at her guilt tripping you. She says she tries not to judge but I think she's judging your parenting style a bit.

She sounds exhausting and I couldn't be bothered with it.

She sounds like a typical Type A perfectionist over-controller who usually would put this energy into climbing the career ladder, but has instead decided to pursue a career in competitive over-parenting. I have a feeling she has probably had these personality traits for quite some time, but they’ve changed focus since having her child.

I was thinking this. She's a SAHM with one child and a 4 day a week nanny / housekeeper. She has way too much time on her hands.

To everyone saying I should take this as a sign that our friendship is fading… I hear you. And maybe, deep down, I know this might be where our paths begin to part. But it’s so hard to accept because this isn’t just anyone—this is my best friend. She’s the girl who stood by me through every messy teen boyfriend drama, the only person I told when I first met my husband and couldn’t stop gushing about him. I was helped her husband plan and execute her proposal. She’s the girl I traveled with during my gap year, my first housemate when we moved for our “big girl” jobs, my maid of honor, my child’s godmother, the wife of my husband’s good friend. Even our parents are friends.

There’s so much love and history here, so many memories we’ve created together, that I want to make it work. But maybe I’m holding onto a version of us that's in the past

I really really don't know the answer to any of those questions, if it's masking anything.
Obviously the birth of a child can change someone a lot, but all I can say is that she was a lot more outgoing socially than me as long as I've known her. She'd be the one that approached a group of boys for us if one of us liked one, she'd easily make friends with people she's never met before when she visited me at uni, in her job she did a lot of public speaking.

She says that the parents need to maintain a good relationship for the child to grow up in a happy family, so she doesn't always sound excited before the date nights but sees it as something that "needs" to happen, for Sophie's sake.
I do think she has a good time there and she doesn't deny that, but she rationalises it that it's for Sophie's benefit.

But the way you talk about her doesn't sound like love it sounds like total intolerance. Understandably so, her routines are so rigid. The point is rather than criticise and try to change her there comes a time when we have to respect our friend's choices and just step back. You may reconnect in the future but for now just let her be, let things fade or the resentment may escalate and you'll say something you regret.

Yes we have mutual friends but she's lost touch with the vast majority of them in the last 2 years... partly because we were all in our 20s and some were nursing a hangover on a Sunday so wouldn't be keen for a brunch with a toddler / would rather have cocktails on a Saturday night than visit a mum and toddler for playtime, partly because she just didn't have as much time to devote to friendships since Sophie was born.
I must admit I also lost friends for similar reasons - I had my first at 25 when most of my friends were either single and partying or travelling the world, but I had kept in touch in some capacity with the majority of them, even if we didn't continue seeing each other as regularly.

It's partly the reason I wanted her to come to my 30th: we had a lot of friends in common and I think it would be nice for her to reconnect with some, including good for her mental health to have some adult conversations in her life!

Ah that really is so hard. As it’s such a close friend I would perhaps try one more time to have an honest and open conversation with her in a relaxed environment, expressing how this behaviour makes you feel and your genuine concern for her. I have a few very close childhood friends and even we’ve gone through stages over the decades - friendships naturally ebb and flow, sometimes you are more connected, other times you feel more distanced. I think that’s very normal. A solid friendship can withstand the battering of circumstances, as you will re-connect again. I don’t think you need to do anything drastic here, but accepting that you both have different focuses in life, and different needs, at present is a good first step.