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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want to see my friend without her toddler?

272 replies

harrietmg · 07/12/2024 14:01

I’ve been friends with her since primary school, over 20 years, and we’ve always been super close. We were each other’s maids of honor, and she’s one of my best friends. Since having her daughter, Sophie (2.5 years old), she insists on bringing her to every meet-up. At first, it made sense because Sophie was breastfed. Now, she says she doesn’t want to miss any time with her daughter, and lately, she frames it as “so fun” to have Sophie along now that she’s move grownup, calling her “another one of the besties” who enjoys our outings and is “part of the gang”.

The reality is less fun. Brunches involve constant interruptions: “Don’t touch that,” “Let me wipe your hands,” “Don’t shout,” “Get down before you fall,” or “Don’t hug Aunty Harriet with jammy hands.” While I understand this is normal toddler behavior, it’s hard to relax or have a proper conversation when I’m dodging sticky hugs or watching her manage Sophie the whole time.

When I’ve suggested meeting without Sophie, she always says, “I don’t want to miss her childhood because of brunch.” We’ve tried playground meet-ups, but those mostly consist of us running after Sophie to keep her safe while barely talking. I love children, but sometimes I just want time with her. For her sake too: she’s mentioned losing 90% of her friends because “if someone doesn’t want to spend time with my child, they aren’t a true friend.”

She has a nanny-housekeeper four days a week and regularly asks her mum to babysit when she and her husband go on date nights (about once a month), but otherwise, she refuses to leave Sophie. I’ve suggested meeting after Sophie’s bedtime or letting her husband put Sophie to bed, but she says she doesn’t want to miss bedtime, and by then, it’s too late to go anywhere.

I have two children of my own (a 5-year-old and a 9-month-old) so I understand the challenges of maintaining pre-motherhood friendships as a parent. But I’m also conscious that, as lovely as my children are, they’re not necessarily welcome at every social gathering. I’ve always made an effort to respect that.

Now, she’s asked if she can bring Sophie to my 30th, a 7 pm dinner at a high-end restaurant, then leave halfway through when Sophie gets tired. I love Sophie, but I don’t think it’s fair to have a toddler crying, running around, or throwing food (as toddlers do) at what’s meant to be a special evening with friends.

OP posts:
KTSl1964 · 07/12/2024 20:52

You are entitled to your needs and she is entitled to her choices (not great ones on her part but he ho you have no control over her controlling behaviour) it's not healthy. You need to let the friendship go. Do not let her come to your birthday at all - she will be pining for her daughter which will distract your fun.

Elliesmumma · 07/12/2024 20:55

I’ll drop my toddler off for a play date with Sophie and your friend and come to your party instead if you want?! I’m sat at home feeling sorry for myself missing yet another Christmas do because I can’t get anyone to babysit, and absolutely desperate for a good night out. I love my daughter so much but cannot understand the logic of your friend. Does she not just want one night of freedom?!

LameBorzoi · 07/12/2024 21:09

harrietmg · 07/12/2024 20:11

To everyone saying I should take this as a sign that our friendship is fading… I hear you. And maybe, deep down, I know this might be where our paths begin to part. But it’s so hard to accept because this isn’t just anyone—this is my best friend. She’s the girl who stood by me through every messy teen boyfriend drama, the only person I told when I first met my husband and couldn’t stop gushing about him. I was helped her husband plan and execute her proposal. She’s the girl I traveled with during my gap year, my first housemate when we moved for our “big girl” jobs, my maid of honor, my child’s godmother, the wife of my husband’s good friend. Even our parents are friends.

There’s so much love and history here, so many memories we’ve created together, that I want to make it work. But maybe I’m holding onto a version of us that's in the past

Long term friendships ebb and flow. It sounds as if she is a "mum friend" for a few years, at least. As her daughter gets older, you may be able to reconnect in a different way.

Poodleville · 07/12/2024 21:17

If you withdraw quietly, if she comes to her senses in a few years you may be able to salvage something. If you speak your mind now, how do you think it would land? I.e. "I'm worried about you, you seem so worried about leaving her and this idea that your time together is finite".

mewkins · 07/12/2024 21:29

harrietmg · 07/12/2024 14:12

I said "no", to which she didn't reply anything at the time but then messaged that, she didn't want to say anything in front of Sophie, but it's making her heart tear as a parent. As much as she'd like to celebrate me, she knows that this would mean missing a bedtime and there's only so many times Sophie will want to be put to bed, you blink and she'll be too old. So yes she will come but will likely be thinking of Sophie most of the time anyway (her words)

Grin Was she always this melodramatic? How have you been friends with her for so long?

FancyBiscuitsLevel · 07/12/2024 21:38

Given she’s obsessed with what’s best for Sophie, can I suggest you go with the angle of her never having time away is bad for Sophie?

in that as well as having a good relationship with her mother , it’s equally important for Sophie to be fully bonded with her father and see him as equal importance to mum. If he’s at work full time and never gets time alone with Sophie, never gets to do bedtime routine on his own etc, how is he going to build that strong bond?

that you understand she might not be ready to come to your birthday party, but you really think for Sophie’s sake, it would be good for her to take some time away so Sophie gets some Daddy daughter time, without mum around.

ItsFreedomBabyYeah · 07/12/2024 22:09

God your friend sounds tedious. Not everyone thinks little Sophie is the bees knees. To be honest I'd be pulling back from this friendship, it sounds too hard.

I'd say "I understand if you can't attend, but Sophie isn't welcome at this event ". She can decide to come or not.

Sonowimbackfromouterspace · 07/12/2024 22:30

A word of warning: it may not stop even as the child ages. My SIL is just like this and her child is 22 now. As such, the comment about coming to the birthday party but will be thinking only of what she will be missing at home made me want to bleach my eyes when I read it.

I've just written a long post & deleted it for fear of it being too outing, but trust me, any chance to shoe-horn the child's name into a conversation, or to bring up any one or more of their illnesses and afflictions in any combination, my SIL will take it with both hands.

It's even worse if you afford no opportunity for her to do so, as she will genuinely force a gap at some stage to fit it in. Almost as if it's better to let her get it all out of her system at the start.

PrettyParrot · 08/12/2024 07:48

May I just say that, as a child who was watched by her mother every moment of the day, it does eventually become exhausting/smothering and hurts the relationship. Dsis and I referred to DM's attention as the Eye of Sauron because that's how it felt sometimes....

Bit nuclear, but maybe try a "Sophie needs a good relationship with her dad in case you're hot by a bus" talk? Or could that backfire horribly and make her stop going out :/

Waterboatlass · 08/12/2024 07:55

Poodleville · 07/12/2024 21:17

If you withdraw quietly, if she comes to her senses in a few years you may be able to salvage something. If you speak your mind now, how do you think it would land? I.e. "I'm worried about you, you seem so worried about leaving her and this idea that your time together is finite".

I agree with this. Ask her what's going on. You're very close friends and her behaviour not normal. Bringing a toddler to a boozy lunch or fancy birthday evening meal where the host's kids aren't present isn't appropriate. That's clear to anyone. Could you ring or see her and ask straight, 'how are you doing? Your response seemed a bit anxious for one evening out'.

harrietmg · 08/12/2024 09:43

PrettyParrot · 08/12/2024 07:48

May I just say that, as a child who was watched by her mother every moment of the day, it does eventually become exhausting/smothering and hurts the relationship. Dsis and I referred to DM's attention as the Eye of Sauron because that's how it felt sometimes....

Bit nuclear, but maybe try a "Sophie needs a good relationship with her dad in case you're hot by a bus" talk? Or could that backfire horribly and make her stop going out :/

She jokes about this a lot actually and we've had the hit by a bus talk, kinda.

She says things like "ah Sophie just constantly wants mummy - she wants mummy to do bedtime, mummy to serve her lunch, mummy to help her go on the potty... no idea how they'd cope if I had to suddenly go to a&e for a full day", to which I've said before that maybe she needs to leave Sophie with daddy at least occasionally or at the very least let him do the occasional bedtime / take Sophie to the potty from time to time in case she DOES get taken to a&e unexpectedly, so that the dad could cope. She just brushed it off saying it's unlikely and if Sophie prefers mummy she gets mummy, stress isn't great for young children.

OP posts:
Anotherworrier · 08/12/2024 09:58

harrietmg · 08/12/2024 09:43

She jokes about this a lot actually and we've had the hit by a bus talk, kinda.

She says things like "ah Sophie just constantly wants mummy - she wants mummy to do bedtime, mummy to serve her lunch, mummy to help her go on the potty... no idea how they'd cope if I had to suddenly go to a&e for a full day", to which I've said before that maybe she needs to leave Sophie with daddy at least occasionally or at the very least let him do the occasional bedtime / take Sophie to the potty from time to time in case she DOES get taken to a&e unexpectedly, so that the dad could cope. She just brushed it off saying it's unlikely and if Sophie prefers mummy she gets mummy, stress isn't great for young children.

She just sounds really proud to be a Mum and her set up at home is none of anyone’s business. All though, it’s likely, that when Sophie is older she’ll regret the problem she’s helping to create and will be on MN complaining DH does nothing and everyone will be telling her to LTB.

TBH we didn’t need the back story, you don’t want a toddler at your birthday dinner - totally fair. Have you told her it’s adults only yet?

usernother · 08/12/2024 10:18

She sounds like a massive Pita OP. Don't worry about offending her or upsetting her. She doesn't worry about anyone else apart from her and her precious child. I'd start to break ties with her, her child is far more important than anyone else in her life so let her crack on.

Karmacode · 08/12/2024 10:43

This is madness! I have a toddler and absolutely love meeting my friends without them. In fact it's vital for my sanity! I can't think anything worse than trying to take them for brunch with a friend.

I can't stand these marty parents that are glued to their children, think the world revolves around their children and everyone else should be interested in them. Equating a few hours for meeting a friend to missing her childhood is absolutely batshit insane.

PlaygroundSusie · 08/12/2024 11:53

OP, I think your friend is being massively unreasonable, especially the way she tried to guilt-trip you into allowing her toddler to attend your 30th birthday dinner.

Sad to say, but even if you hadn't suggested she sit this one out, I suspect she still wouldn't have attended. I reckon she would have cancelled at the last minute, citing some version of "my toddler needs me".

I think you handled the dinner situation perfectly, but that still doesn't address the larger problem of her always bringing Sophie to your catch-ups. It also sounds like you've also tried to offer her reasonable alternatives, such as going out after the child is in bed, only to be shot down in flames.

The only thing I can think of, is can you meet up at her friend's house, during the daytime? Yes, Sophie will still be there, but in a familiar environment, with her own toys, and hopefully less distractions. I've found that works quite well for me and my friends with young children. The adults sit and chat, and the kid(s) play happily with their toys. Would that work for you and your friend?

harrietmg · 08/12/2024 12:56

@Anotherworrier it's not really a back story, more part of the whole situation.
If the birthday was a one off, then it's a much smaller issue. It isn't so much about the birthday by itself, rather aibu to think it's strange she brings her child everywhere every time and refuses to leave Sophie for even an evening or a morning. The birthday is just another example

OP posts:
harrietmg · 08/12/2024 12:59

@PlaygroundSusie I do come over to her home, although it's more to play with Sophie because Sophie doesn't really play very much independently and needs to show her mum something every 5 minutes or for her mum to also be colouring when she is colouring - my oldest was like that! If we get caught up in adult chat then Sophie will cry because she wants us to be playing with her.

OP posts:
Sceptical123 · 08/12/2024 13:43

If she can leave her for date night once a month then she needs to prioritise your special bday ahead of going to a restaurant with her OH this once 🤷🏼‍♀️

Sceptical123 · 08/12/2024 13:47

harrietmg · 08/12/2024 09:43

She jokes about this a lot actually and we've had the hit by a bus talk, kinda.

She says things like "ah Sophie just constantly wants mummy - she wants mummy to do bedtime, mummy to serve her lunch, mummy to help her go on the potty... no idea how they'd cope if I had to suddenly go to a&e for a full day", to which I've said before that maybe she needs to leave Sophie with daddy at least occasionally or at the very least let him do the occasional bedtime / take Sophie to the potty from time to time in case she DOES get taken to a&e unexpectedly, so that the dad could cope. She just brushed it off saying it's unlikely and if Sophie prefers mummy she gets mummy, stress isn't great for young children.

This is obviously more about her than her daughter

ItsVeryComplicated · 08/12/2024 13:55

I think it's okay for her to want to be with her child. Why don't you invite her to the other party you're having, where your children will also be present?

kiraric · 08/12/2024 14:03

I have PMed you as I am pretty sure your friend is on Mumsnet and you might want to be aware

The backstory with the nanny housekeeper situation etc is quite recognisable.

She sounds awful - it goes way beyond being proud to be a mummy and into being a bad friend, and not even a great mother, more smother.

I would actually suggest finding your anger a bit and expressing that to her. It might be worth saying - "it makes me sad and disappointed that you won't be there, because for no obvious reason you won't trust your husband" I think she needs to be told more explicitly that this isn't normal and she is being a shit friend

Plastictrees · 08/12/2024 14:06

ItsVeryComplicated · 08/12/2024 13:55

I think it's okay for her to want to be with her child. Why don't you invite her to the other party you're having, where your children will also be present?

You think it’s okay for her to be with her child all the time, and never see friends without her?

KimberleyClark · 08/12/2024 14:18

harrietmg · 08/12/2024 12:59

@PlaygroundSusie I do come over to her home, although it's more to play with Sophie because Sophie doesn't really play very much independently and needs to show her mum something every 5 minutes or for her mum to also be colouring when she is colouring - my oldest was like that! If we get caught up in adult chat then Sophie will cry because she wants us to be playing with her.

Well, it seems she’s never being given the chance to play independently, so it’s no wonder she’s unable to.

Gloriia · 08/12/2024 14:43

Plastictrees · 08/12/2024 14:06

You think it’s okay for her to be with her child all the time, and never see friends without her?

It is her choice though and every time the op posts there is a little passive aggressive barb about her friend and dd. Latest that Sophie doesn't play independently, she cries etc. Maybe the friend picks up on this scrutiny and it makes her anxious.

Just live and let live. The op clearly has a very different parenting style and that is fine just step back and stop the critique of another parent's parenting.

Plastictrees · 08/12/2024 14:48

@Gloriia My post wasn’t directed at you. You seem very defensive of the friends bizarre behaviour.