Reform and abortion

[Craftymam]

Just a public service announcement as I missed this last week and find it quite shocking that coverage was so low.

Nigel Farage has said he wants to ‘open a new discussion’ on abortion rights.

Considering everything that’s gone on in America, the rise in popularity of reform and this alleged 100 Million donation from Elon musk; I felt I had to bring this to everyone’s attention.

For Nigel, not really.

Some sure.

But I do think these matters need to be to up for discussion. We are increasingly hell bent on killing the poor, old, vulnerable, unwell and unwanted. When we end up in a very bleak place, it's worth having the records of how we got here.

You can do that now in the case of severe disability

Because then it's not an abortion anymore, obviously.

This is precisely why people vote for Reform. Not because they want them in power but just because they are wolves in wolves clothing rather than the wolves dressed as sheep the alternatives offer. This is such a disingenuous response to a valid question. You might have had a response with some authority, if you did you would share. But you don't, so you resort to these games instead.

I think aborting a baby at term would cause more trauma

I'm not necessarily even in agreement with it, but I think there are very specific circumstances where an argument can be made.

it’s crazy people want to push this point. It’s like … a gift to your opposition tbh.

Becauze like abortion bans, where it’s inevitable that someone is gonna die from lack of access, you are going to have a situation where someone purposely kills a healthy full-term baby. In fact, hasn’t this already happened wrt self-administered abortion pills?

Honestly just preserve what you have.

What's the possible 'good' intention?

Eh? Is it just white uneducated men you hate? Does uneducated make them evil?

In countries where abortion is permitted up to birth for any reason, nobody actually does that. No woman carries a pregnancy to 39 weeks and decides it would be fun to have an abortion for no reason other than not wanting the baby.

We do allow termination up to birth already for severe disabilities and where the condition is incompatible with life. People don’t seem too fussed about those babies though.

Just because it is possible to survive at 22 weeks doesn’t meant that should be the cut off. Usually a baby born at this stage would have life long issues and would only survive due to serious medical intervention. Without this they would die. Anyway very few abortions take place at this stage unless there are feral abnormalities.

I bet you any money that if Nigel or Donald got a woman pregnant that they weren’t married to, it would be a completely different issue with regard to the sanctity of life and they would happily pay for an abortion.

Not yet anyway. But after a few decades of euthanising the elderly, the poor, vulnerable, and the unwell we'll be quite used to this level of "care" and it would be cruel not to extend this kind of healthcare to neonates.

https://jme.bmj.com/content/39/5/261

"Abstract
Abortion is largely accepted even for reasons that do not have anything to do with the fetus' health. By showing that (1) both fetuses and newborns do not have the same moral status as actual persons, (2) the fact that both are potential persons is morally irrelevant and (3) adoption is not always in the best interest of actual people, the authors argue that what we call ‘after-birth abortion’ (killing a newborn) should be permissible in all the cases where abortion is, including cases where the newborn is not disabled."

Having more choice duh

The "ones where there is a severe risk to the life of the mother, or where the baby is facing massive disability if survival is even feasible" have a current limit of birth, not 24 weeks.

Reducing the limit to 22 weeks will put no restrictions on abortions for those reasons. It would reduce the time people can just 'choose' to have an abortion, but given you think that mindset is basically zero, it wouldn't actually restrict anyone. In reality a small number of people do choose late term abortions, who would be affected by this. He is right though that 22 weeks is much more the liability line than 24 these days.

Which is why nobody would choose to do that unless it genuinely is the only option.

it’s crazy people want to push this point. It’s like … a gift to your opposition tbh

Agree with this. I can't think of anything more likely to jeopardise abortion rights in the UK than people trying to argue that pro-choice should mean pro-abortion up to term.

Women make choices about all sorts of things

Other women don't have to agree with them

It’s fine at 24 weeks - I was just pointing out that we already do abort babies up to term where they will be severely disabled. This has been interpreted to include club foot and cleft palate. Not just where the condition is incompatible with life.

Maybe that's Farage's angle?

If the disability is that severe then most women would have had that picked up at earlier scans wouldn't' they?

She’s only allowed to voice hatred of white men. She’s not allowed to voice her annoyance at other groups of men.

I would bet if you take surveys and tracked by ethnicities, males from other groups would be more disapproving (for religious reasons). But she won’t call them out at all.

Farage is just following the right wing US playbook and this is one of their strategies. Controlling women is one of the themes that goes down well with their male supporters.

A couple of the few things that I always thought distanced the UK from the right-wing evangelical madness of US politics was that no UK parties were advocating for the removal of abortion rights and the promotion of gun ownership. Enter bloody Nigel Farage...

I think that about abortions should only women discuss in their reproductive years not men or old grandmas who cannot be pregnant anymore. Personally I will not do abortion if I am pregnant but is everyone own choice what they gonna do with their bodies with all the consequences