Reform and abortion

[Craftymam]

Just a public service announcement as I missed this last week and find it quite shocking that coverage was so low.

Nigel Farage has said he wants to ‘open a new discussion’ on abortion rights.

Considering everything that’s gone on in America, the rise in popularity of reform and this alleged 100 Million donation from Elon musk; I felt I had to bring this to everyone’s attention.

So Farage is discussing bringing down the limit of abortion to 22 weeks, using viability as his argument. However, in practice, the only pregnancies that are terminated at this stage are ones where there is a severe risk to the life of the mother, or where the baby is facing massive disability if survival is even feasible. This is nothing to do with the sanctity of life,or even fetal viability. This is just unspeakable cruelty.

This has to be a sick troll post surely?

"As early as possible, as late as necessary" isn't exactly an unheard of position in this discussion.

You might not agree with it, but plenty of people support women's bodily autonomy without restriction. The fact that you don't agree doesn't make it a "sick troll post".

I honestly can’t believe I just read that. So you’re condoning infanticide on demand? No way could I go there.

Agreed.

I can see there being an argument for early delivery in some cases (thinking, for example, about the woman who was prosecuted for a home abortion at 33 weeks I think?), if a woman no longer wants to be pregnant.

But it would be hugely hard to get to a point where that was legally possible because of those who push the extremist stances.

I am 100% pro choice, but to allow it up until term as @Dotjones syggested I absolute madness. That would be murder. It’s an actual, fully formed baby at term. That would be no different to giving birth and then killing it.
Abortions should be easier to access however. It’s an extremely traumatic experience for any woman to go through, and most abortion decisions are not reached lightly. There should also be more mental health support for any woman going through it

I always understood the "as late as necessary" as in for medical since in some places wven that is not allowed.

Why not immediately after birth?

I had not seen the statement from Reform saying this. So I only have the Opening post for info.
Where are we on viability of foetus? Is it younger than when the law was formed?
It will be a long time before Reform is able to lead a Government and bring this to HOC. Neither do I see any other party looking for allies and support. So is a discussion now pointless.
On the other hand a concerted campaign against any kind of tampering with a law that seems to be working well would be a 'shot across the bows'. It would warn them that there would be a serious fight if anyone wanted to bring in US style regulations.

Literally this.

These pricks will try and take us down the same route as America, and that cannot be allowed to happen.

Regardless of what you think of what gestational age abortion should be allowed up to, even discussing abortion in the current political climate isn't safe. Now is not the time to be looking at abortion laws.

Men can and will take our rights away, and most men will not stand and fight with us if it comes to it.

This

For abortion after 24 weeks the baby gets an injection into the heart to stop it beating and this is confirmed on a scan. It's only after this that the induction takes place

The very second we allow men to make decisions for women is the second we become handmaids. I'd riot in the street if I had to.

So you think there should only be women in government? Because every single political decision made affects women in some way.

To add on to other discussions in this thread, I don't think the vast majority of people will advocate for full term abortion. However, the only people likely to be aborting in those circumstances will be very desperate women or girls. Or parents where something happens and the baby is likely to be born in lots of pain/significantly disabled in a life limiting way.

Also, what about a scenario in cases of severe abuse, for example wherein something like a homeschooled 14yo has been the victim of incest in her family, and the pregnancy has been hidden with no access to ante-natal care. Or something like trafficked/exploited women who have been forcibly impregnated.

I'm not sure you can argue it's truly more ethical to force women to have babies in these situations, either for the woman or the baby. People can talk about adoption, but the vast majority of adopted and care experienced children grow up with significant trauma and are far more likely to be mentally unwell, enter the criminal justice system, etc. Imagine growing up finding out you were born under those circumstances.

Your average woman isn't going to be seeking abortion late on in pregnancy.

“Is 24 weeks right for abortion given that we now save babies at 22?” he said. “That to me would be worthy of a debate in parliament but should that be along party lines? I don’t think so.”
NF

But this issue is specifically about women and their bodies. It's an experience unique to our sex. Men cannot carry babies. Men are not put at risk by changes to abortion laws.

Most political issues affect everyone. This does not. Male politicians have no business dictating laws around abortion.

My 40 year old (born at 26 weeks) would disagree

I am all for choice - but if by 12 weeks you usually know if you're pregnant or not...,.how long do you need before you decide to terminate?
I'm not to judge and would support a woman on her choices...,but 24 weeks is a baby

If men want to restrict abortion more, then they also need to open a conversation about male behaviour within relationships and in the context of becoming fathers and being fathers. They also need to have the discussion about childcare and the motherhood penalty. Let’s talk about why women want fewer children. Then maybe we will get a fuller, more honest discussion.

D'oh..., fell for it

You should try to understand... you don't have to agree, but you should try.

What's wrong with this statement

You tell me

Of course I know why; he tells people what they want to hear. Why people believe him is another matter.

Odious little man!

The UK is not America. Abortion is not an issue people here want to talk about. He should keep his opinions (or rather those of his financial backers) out of women's uteruses!

Sounds reasonable, that was the point of my post.