"Trans people should not be allowed to use women’s showers and changing rooms, proposed NHS guidance says" - Darlington Nurses draft new guidance.

[MrBungle]

Is this a reasonable response to the Darlington Nurses issue? (males in female changing spaces)

Wes Streeting requested the Darlington Nurses drafter the guidance.

https://archive.ph/BNTtH (Link to Telegraph article discussing details)

😫 now that’s even more to worry about but agree

To you and I perhaps.
But this will be the argument.

Even more, if alternative facilities were available they should have been offered to the small number of trans identifying men to use, not force women out of their own facilities.

If they've been on testosterone for a decade or whatever so they look like a small man, they can use the mixed or neutral space.
Not the women's. They certainly can't compete in women's sport given the drug induced sporting advantages.

Thankfully the EA2010 already addresses this and states in the exemptions that transmen can be lawfully excluded from women only spaces along with transwomen.

Yes, clearly. The only voices we haven't heard are those of transgender people, just the usual transphobic media outlets, and Labour taking the easy route of punching down.

I personally think that young boys using male changing rooms are a major risk often overlooked. But women seem to be fine with it despite saying that men are more likely to be predators (which is true, but being applied selectively).

It's more "outing" for a TW to use a women only space because everyone looks around thinking why the f is there a bloke in here

Young boys usually use facilities with their parents

Parents with children that need support either literally or for their sons safety because they don’t want them in the mens as it’s mainly used by adult males should use the mixed toilet / accessible facilities.

Keep men out of women's spaces.
I'll never stop saying it.

I too have seen the delusion that TW think that they ''pass''.
They don't, the size of them, the build, women instinctively recognise an XY, probably as a survival mechanism -even an XY in a dress and full wig and fake boobs still gives ''uncanny valley'' dissonance.

Blaire White is probably one of the best ''passing'' but I haven't seen Blaire in person, but at least Blaire White respects women.

I argue that is the main but not the sole reason for a third space. Some people should have additional privacy.

Wouldn't bother me transmen using the facilities, biologically they are still women.

The only voices we haven't heard are those of transgender people

😂😂😂😂
Wow.

You are aware that this TW was using the women's facilities in the first place yes???? That women in real life risked losing their jobs for objecting??? That women have been.... - ofgs never mind.😂

I wouldn't be remotely bothered by Transmen using women's facilities either.

They aren’t interested. By providing the “pods” which are lockable and floor to ceiling, they are providing us with a safe and secure place to change, apparently. They have made clear that no changing must take place outside of the pods.

I’m a police officer, in case that’s relevant. Despite complaints from every single person at my station, male and female, we’ve been told this is the direction the force is taking and is non-negotiable.

Transmen are biologically female so the should be using the women's facilities it's transwomen who are biologically male and should never be allowed in female facilities or sports

I don't think most people have time for "I'm actually a woman but I've been on testosterone for a decade" sorts of conversations though when you're eg on a maternity ward.

If you have gone to the extremes of body modification to the point where you pass as a man, don't complain that you're not welcome in women only spaces. It's lawful in any case that's the main point.

I doubt those stats exist as the crime would be reported as being committed by a female

So why not lobby the men to make their facilities more acceptable to transwomen.

Clearly you haven’t.

Why does anyone need to hear from the man pushing boundaries by being in a space not for him thus causing women distress and discomfort? He’s pissing all over their right to change in a dignified manner away from a biological male (hence why these spaces exist) when he could’ve went elsewhere. That space isn’t for him. His voice now is irrelevant.

As the Mumsnet resident misogynist you already know all this but I’ll keep pointing it out for sunlight and any newcomers to this area.

I think mixed spaces in addition to the standard F and M spaces is reasonable just as it is reasonable for cis gendered people to be uncomfortable with other sexes in their space.
My university already has implemented this and contrary to what some of the comments suggest - lots of cis folk use this space to stand as allies with their trans friends.
I also think it’s important to note that trans folk only consist of a tiny fraction of the population and this space would greatly benefit intersex people who are statistically more common.
I would suggest trans folk (especially trans women) would benefit from this additional space as male toilets and showers are not safe spaces for them, the assault rate for cis men attacks on trans women are absolutely horrendous and I hope for their sakes they get more protections and provisions to prevent them from harm.

My brother is now a Transvestite or a Trans woman. It's fluid.
I don't want to share prizes, sports teams or facilities with him.
He has got an amazing wig and spent a lot of money on clothes but I still get old schoolfriend messaging that they've seen my brother
Was he wearing a dress?
Yes, drinking in the -+++pub

I wish the men of our local town would be more kind, make my 6ft2" brother in women's clothing feel more welcome in the gents where he belongs.

Everyone is transphobic short of total capitulation to men bulldozing their way into every single women’s single sex space according to the poster.

They argue non stop to allow men to have access to women’s safe spaces.

How about men’s, women’s for female dna only, and women’s including trans women
bonus for those of us who don’t mind, we get an extra toilet facility