"Trans people should not be allowed to use women’s showers and changing rooms, proposed NHS guidance says" - Darlington Nurses draft new guidance.

[MrBungle]

Is this a reasonable response to the Darlington Nurses issue? (males in female changing spaces)

Wes Streeting requested the Darlington Nurses drafter the guidance.

https://archive.ph/BNTtH (Link to Telegraph article discussing details)

Except men pee on the ground and around the bowl. So for women wearing skirts it’s all a bit crap unless they go in marigolds aready.

Which is where this argument has started.
Transwomen ( biologically male born ) won’t use the mens

This.
I’d be happy to go in and use these facilities to get changed. Fat, old and I don’t care. Let the men feel uncomfortable with my being there. Let them complain about needing men only changing areas.

True but the women’s toilets in public places can be just as disgusting.

Making another group feel uncomfortable isn’t a solution.
Men aren’t the issue here
Transpeople are.

Transwomen won’t use the mens

Fine, but they need to keep out of the women's. So we need to stop calling them transwomen.

Of course they shouldn’t use biological women’s spaces, as their perceived identities are theirs alone, but a third space sounds fine. 👍

Which is no reason to make it worse.

I did cover for a cleaner for a few months for illness. I can concur that the Women are actually worse than Men for the state they leave bathrooms. Used towels on the floor, urine on seats, excrement on the outside of the bowl. For the most part the guys it was skids inside the pan.

Unfortunately there only needs to be one male person to completely wreck it for all the other women around.

I know this thread is toilet-centred but let's look at women's sports instead.
Your average non-athletic 16 year old boy can break a woman's world record in most sports, quite easily. By the time that one boy becomes a trained athletic man he'll be dangerous against all the women he's up against.

How about women's refuges and prisons. It only takes one penis to impregnate every single woman in that space. These women are enclosed, vulnerable, locked up, no escape.
One person with a penis can rape all of them.

How about women's awards. One person with a penis who wins it, it's no longer a woman's award is it. Because TW aren't women. If a TW uses the women's facilities, they aren't women's facilities anymore. We don't have them anymore.

Men need to stand up and support women.
If it’s gender neutral than the men’s feelings aren’t my concern. I’m entitled to use the space (sounds familiar I agree).

Denying their existence isn’t going to solve the problem
They exist, nothing we can do about it.
The only way to truly sort this issue and the dignity and safety of women is to provide separate spaces.
At the moment if we complain about a trans women in our toilets we are shouted down and could be accused of hate speech. So let’s get them out by legislating for trans spaces.
Digging our heels in and pretending they don’t exist will get us no where.

When are we going to call it what it is. Men, women, mentally ill. Somebody tried to tell me that sex is a fluid concept last week. Just fuck off!

Neither should Stonewall

As a mother of a daughter with one of these medical conditions the difference is that she would be behind a locked door. It is an issue. She could choke on her own vomit and be able to do nothing about it when she comes around and die.

Have you actually followed the case?

Now that sounds like the ultimate claustrophobic, dystopian nightmare. Most women actually enjoy the camaraderie in single-sex spaces, which also happen to be more space-efficient and far less cramped. I don't see why you'd force everybody into fucking cubicles, including shlepping around things cubicle to locker, all for the sake of a tiny minority?

Agreed

Up until about last Wednesday we'd say "transvestites".

Everyone knows transvestites exist, no one is denying that

What does your daughter do during the rest of her life if working in eg a hospital or out and about alone in public? Presumably the same could happen if she used the toilets in a shopping centre with enclosed an area.

Then the doors need to be openable from the outside
with an alarm internally like in disabled toilets.

Id also advocate and want a portable alarm/ call system if I had a child with such a serious condition.

Camarederie??? Your in there to get changed or use the facilities. Not have a natter and a laugh. You aren't at school.

No

Only where there's a) no regular cleaning and b) and much more importantly, no potty parity rules, so female spaces will be having, at a rough guess, three times the usage of the equivalent male space.