"Trans people should not be allowed to use women’s showers and changing rooms, proposed NHS guidance says" - Darlington Nurses draft new guidance.

[MrBungle]

Is this a reasonable response to the Darlington Nurses issue? (males in female changing spaces)

Wes Streeting requested the Darlington Nurses drafter the guidance.

https://archive.ph/BNTtH (Link to Telegraph article discussing details)

A MN thread sometime ago about shop communal changing facilities in the 70s / 80s would disagree with you there.

’Most’ women do not enjoy communal changing rooms, I think you’ll find.

Some bloke shouldn't be intimidating women when they're vulnerable, no matter who he claims to be.

My post agreed with you. I doubt many people men or women want to get changed in front of anyone. Single cubicles are the answer.

How about instead of "Men" and "Women" on toilet doors we have "XY" and "XX"
(Slightly tongue in cheek)

It's disappointing that some women are happy to give up rights that women have fought long and hard for. Stop budging up!

Aye right,

Women wanting privacy from the male gaze are just transphobic. It's horrible transphobia not to kow tow to the demands of males don't ya know.

Yawn.

Single cubicles aren't the answer for me. I don't want men in women's spaces. Women have been dragged into cubicles and raped. Men have been caught masturbating in women's changing rooms. No thanks.

Did I tag onto you. Apologies
My fury is getting the better of me and I clearly responded to the wrong MNetter think I need a chamomile

I agree with you!!! Too

And yet... they ARE rewriting the policy and they DO have Wes Streeting's ear on it - so it's happening.

Looks like it's finally all ok to call your opinions out for the bullshit they are. the tide has well and truly turned.

#feelsbadman

🕶

The amount of use either place gets does not negate either sex leaving them in a disgusting state.

But one man should be allowed to rewrite the definition of the women's changing room/ shower?
Nope, single sex spaces are for the sex they designated for, not for whoever wants to barge in.

The only way that works is the traditional segregation by sex that is understood and accepted by society as the right and proper civilised arrangement for the benefit of all. Mixed sex isn't a viable option - if it is dangerous for women and girls to have men going into women's designated loos and other spaces, it's equally dangerous for women and girls who would choose to go into mixed sex ones if that option were to be made available.
A third space on non-sex basis is necessary in addition to the two traditional sex based ones. If women who change sex, so to speak, were to go into the women's and girls' on the grounds that they are still women, how would you be able to tell which apparent man was a man and which wasn't?

Plus if they have access to spaces used by women they can put cameras in. We ve already seen cases of cameras being found in mixed facilities.
Cameras that have been found to have been there for long periods of time. Many of us could have personal images of ourselves on some dark perverts web
We’re looking to get a device ( app ) that checks for surveillance devices.
How stressful to even have to think about this.

I'd suspect a lot of these hidden camera's are actually installed by employees of wherever they are. Single or mixed sex spaces wouldn't stop that. If the numbers were easily found, I'd bet the majority are found in single sex places.

It may surprise you but "mentally ill" people also have rights. Or should we ban people with depression from using "healthy people's" toilets?

Men should not be using women's facilities under any circumstances. Two men I know who have had all the surgeries will not use women's loos because they know it will cause distress to the women there.

One man who intrudes into women's spaces is enough to create anxiety and discomfort in the women there regardless of his gender identity. They hardly ever pass however they want to con themselves.

or the disabled

Unfortunately that’s exactly what my employer has decided to do. We’ve had male/female locker rooms since forever. They have now decided we need one locker room for everyone, with a couple of “pods” at the far end where all changing must take place. Everyone, male and female, needs to change at the start and end of every shift due to the nature of the job. Everyone has complained but it’s going ahead anyway.

It won’t happen . We will all eventually have shared facilities, because this is the only way to please all parties.
Trans people will not want to be publicly ‘outed’ by using the mixed toilet / space.
In some countries lots of facilities are mixed anyway , where adults of both sexes and children too get changed all together, eg for swimming. I imagine this will be the future here.

We need a National resetting of language starting with the Equality act. Public toilets have a range of random names and symbols as to who can use them and are open to abuse. I'd like to see MALES, FEMALES and UNISEX. Anyone using the wrong facility should have the police called on them.

Have you used the Equality Act? Single sex spaces are permitted under the EA.

For those people saying changing room by sex, how will women feel when a transman is using their space?

Trans people will not want to be publicly ‘outed’ by using the mixed toilet / space.

There's nothing "outing" about using a mixed sex space that both sexes are able to use

I don't care if a woman is using a female space. They're not generally a danger to women.

That data would be irrelevant, and wondering about it is somewhere between bait and a strawman.

Edit: sorry, the above sounded like I'm having a go at you. I'm not, I'm having a go at the usual counter-argument.

What would be relevant is the general data on male violence against women. Because that is what happens when you say "sure, blokes can go shower with women as long as all the blokes pinky-swear that they are really truly women."