"Trans people should not be allowed to use women’s showers and changing rooms, proposed NHS guidance says" - Darlington Nurses draft new guidance.

[MrBungle]

Is this a reasonable response to the Darlington Nurses issue? (males in female changing spaces)

Wes Streeting requested the Darlington Nurses drafter the guidance.

https://archive.ph/BNTtH (Link to Telegraph article discussing details)

people with penises

There's a 3 letter word for that, no need for a 3 word phrase.

What we need for an accurate comparison as to whether TW are 'the most vulnerable' would be figures on what percentage of women have been subjected to misogynistic hate crimes with the threshold for a hate crime applied to misogyny as it is for transphobia.

Even if the claim was true (spoiler, it isn't).

It still doesn't justify any of this. It's not a game of bloody Top Trumps.

Protecting one group of people should not come at the expense of the safety of another.

If third spaces are needed, campaign for them. Leave women out of it.

…You filthy bigot….

🤓

Dunno why news papers aren’t leading with this quote TBH

They have us over a barrel really.

We can’t strike - it’s written into law that the police cannot go on strike. Aside from that, diversity/inclusivity is one of the things all police forces are pushing. I think we are all wary of pushing back against things and then finding ourselves the subject of a misconduct investigation. As daft as that seems, it definitely could happen.

Try contacting Fair Cop? Harry Miller's an ex cop who has won a number of cases where the police over reach or mangle the law in the interests of transactivism.

https://www.faircop.org.uk/

They're all male @Justfortodayembaressed - guilt tripping won't work. What about the feelings and rights of these nurses to not change in front of a male?

What is cruel and disrespectful about acknowledging material biological reality and its implications?

What is cruel and disrespectful about not forcing women to undress in front of men?

Why do you think it is a human right for a man to enter a female changing room?

Why do you think women should undress before men to prove themselves kind and respectful?

The world is not responsible for upholding someone's self image. That's why it's called self-image.

Considering how I have personally been, as have others on this forum, abused by a male person who has then told us how transphobic we are (on top of their abuse towards us) for using the term ‘male person’ to describe why they should not expect to access female single sex spaces, I today have very little fucks to give for anyone attempting to shame women using the term ‘male person’ to describe a male person. Particularly when discussing female single sex spaces.

@Helleofabore I think the reason they demand people do not to use the term male is because using it makes it clear how completely ridiculous the situation is. Of course males shouldn't be in women's changing rooms, sports, rape centres, etc. I think it's become necessary to start calling a spade a spade for clear communication because the double speak muddies the waters and results in so many problems including crimes of men being attributed to women.

Newspeak is vital to the ideology. You cannot define woman and you cannot describe a make person as a male person or a man, otherwise it becomes too obvious what is going on.

The dismantling of language so that you can't express the problem, or indeed provable objective reality, is sinister and entirely intentional. As ever, though, they know who the women are when they throw gendered insults.

Yes. It is on threads where sex is really significant to the discussion that the most pressure, abuse and shaming occur. Such as discussing female single sex spaces or female sports.

The shaming is intending to shame people into using the shamer's acceptable list of words which lead to less precise points which can then be easily discredited on the surface. Or it leads to confusion as to what the point even is.

Instead we are expected to use imprecise and inaccurate language. And again, this is so the message can be open to interpretation. Either making it more acceptable language so people who want to pride themselves on being moderate can even read the post, or whatever.

There is a lot of discussion around blunt and harsh language. Calling women who will use that blunt language derogatory labels has become a virtue signalling pastime for even people who declare they support the concept ... just not the 'language'. However, that blunt and very precise language is what moves the very Overton window to allow understanding to grow.

If women cannot accurately discuss the issues that are causing harm, they are effectively silenced. Saying 'the nurses are complaining because a woman is in their changing room and they want that women to be excluded' is a whole lot different to 'the nurses are complaining because a male person is in their changing room and they want that male person to be excluded'. And activists know this very well and there are people who will blindly copy the activist's tactics because they believe that it is righteous behaviour.

Gender neutral toilets would and should contain the same. Even from a hygiene point of view, using the facilities and having to unlock a cubicle to access the wash basin for whatever reason is pretty grim. No matter who else is in the toilets at the time.

And you do realise you an go to the loo, especially at work, without your friend being there to hold your hand. 🙄

@Helleofabore hopefully that will start changing as more people realise what a duplicitous campaign has been run against us, getting into the largest and most influential organisations to provide "antidiscrimination" guidance and "legal" advice, getting into schools to indoctrinate the young and mislead the vulnerable. Silencing, threatening and bullying as standard practice against anyone who speaks the truth and shares their views on safety. I think the smoke screen is starting to dissipate and people will be able to see what's been hidden behind the 'be kind messages' which is a transactivism monolith that has been working in such a terrifyingly calculated and sinister manner.

I also fell into the trap of kindness and it was only as things got worse and worse that I realised how bad the problem is. Thankfully though sanity seems to be returning. Let's hope taking back accurate language on a wider scale will be part of that process.

@Helleofabore some of those posts on the other thread are shocking .

The problem is, for the activists, that when their demands are based on something false then they need that lie to continue otherwise their demands are shown for what they are, which is that they (the demands) are completely unreasonable. That's why they persist in shaming women for stating simple facts, that every single trans woman is male.

These female nurses should not have been put in this position in the first place.

We have single sex spaces for a reason.

And then, the employer had the temerity, of ousting the women from the space that should have been theirs alone in the first place to accommodate the demands of a single male employee.

It is a good job that Streeting has got involved. We have to keep telling the truth about the fact that these are male demands because women, in spite what the activist say, NEED to have spaces away from the male gaze for our safety and dignity. Women are not lesser humans than males.

All trans women are male / men. Feel free to hammer that report button.

No you use male or female. If your born with a dick you use the male toilet as that makes you a man. Even after surgery your still a man. Imagine washing your hands or a young girl washing their hands and there is an 'alledgedly* a 65 yo woman staring at a 5 year old. Disgusting shouldn't even be up for debate. Sick. If I claim to be a teapot does this make me a teapot? No it doesn't. So why do men who claim to be woman think it's acceptable to use the ladies bathroom? People will be scared in public places like train stations or restaurants to even enter the bathroom in fears of getting raped. If your born with a dick end of your a man. Surgery can change hormones but you still entered the world as a man.
In all serious I don't know any trans people I have been lucky to avoid them but are trans normally gay?

In all serious I don't know any trans people I have been lucky to avoid them but are trans normally gay?

No not always many are, many aren't.

One that I know (middle aged, formerly married, father of three) accompanied his transition with a statement that he was disappointed that his wife had not joined his journey and was now considering if he was going to be 'a lesbian or a straight women' 🙄. He is of course neither.

Oops, got my terminology a bit Pete Tong there. It gets so confusing, but then again I’m a woman of a certain age according to Greg Wallace 🤷‍♀️

I know, I made a boo boo, 🤪

Think he has some mental health. And he wants to use womans facilities so he can perve on them when in the toilet? Sickening.

Historically yes they were predominantly gay men now most of them are straight men who claim to be lesbians.