My town has really changed

[CatbellsOnTheSeashore]

In a confusing and not very pleasant way.

It was gradually changing for the worse before covid, but the pandemic seemed to accelerate it, and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

It became more insular whilst more populated, the population increased quite a bit over the past 5 yrs. More and more dereliction, low council maintenance and an influx of troubled people housed around the town centre, which is now a no-go zone. Areas surrounding have steadily grown worse also, as it seems to be spilling out.

What does feel really different is that there are now lots of groups of men, hanging around drinking or sat on pavements together (not begging). Drugs took over the local nature paths and canal walks so now there are large groups of people out of their heads lying on old sofas at the locks, it's really grim. Women who used to cycle and run in these areas have more or less moved elsewhere or stopped.

More and more standard sized houses in low to middle income areas are becoming HMO's, yet with poor refuse organisation and not enough parking. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are literally trails of dog shit in the streets in many areas, too, which pretty much hangs in the air and the place stinks. That, and skunk.

We live in a decent part of town but it is coming closer, and I only have that perk due to inheriting my parents bungalow. More and more people are moving out.

On a walk to Sainsbury's yesterday two guys were holding onto a sign pole hovering over a bin. As I passed by one of them vomited into the bin and then spat/gobbed an inch from my feet - he didn't notice me particularly, but it was quite sudden or I'd have given them a wide berth.
This isn't unusual now.

I know people usually blame the cost of living and covid, etc, but this was definitely on the rise before. There is far more noise pollution as more buildings go up, usually industrial, and the roads are a nightmare. Infrastructure for actual people is decreasing.
That said, I don't think most of these people were thriving before, so it isn't a sudden change. It is as if a new kind of culture is growing, that doesn't care a damn about anything. Everything is vandalised or shat on. More and more windows are broken in properties close to the town centre, and I doubt most of these people were thriving before the pandemic hit.

Is this bad luck or is anything like it happening elsewhere?
We are definitely looking to move away.

Agree. There are whole sections of society who feel they aren’t being listened to and called all sorts of names for their beliefs.

And some of us, who should be good citizens, setting examples, are just thinking, actually I can go live somewhere nicer. There are options, fewer than there were once, but there are still a few places. I like the UK and its people, but not the politics. I would rather like to listen to UK pols bang on and think, I am so glad they don't run this place.

And I concede that nowhere is Utopia. I am going to be liable for taxation anywhere I go, but there is a huge difference between paying tax at 15-20% on your own money and life savings, not unreasonable, but to pay tax at 40-60% because you planned and saved to build up a financial cushion. I don't think its even a rebalancing act for the government.

I shall still be expected to pay for my own care home, and as I have to, I shall be looking for a naice one, where I shan't be alongside a person whose most significant success in life was a Sunday School certificate for attendance.

@Lazery why thank you!! Thing is I'm very much I would say in the centre politically and pretty liberal but having been both to @Feelingathomenow s close area and also my old home town in the midlands recently the stench of decay was palpable- I can say with my old home town it most certainly isn't mainly about immigration - it was the fact of the other things I mentioned- it's actually still extremely white with a smattering of Eastern Europeans - but the big issue is a lack of well paid work in the area and clearly a drug problem and a ton of aggressive roided up white men ( all ages up to early 60s) I think we can't say it's one particular 'thing' because the issues here in say Somerset ( and yes we do have problem areas) aren't 'all' the same as those in say Oldham or the east end of London -

It does seem the major issue, IMO is the lack of integration. I guess we need to prioritise money and help for those we think can successfully integrate.. Do people think anyone can fully integrate into UK culture? If not who is going to find it difficult and how do we make sure people coming to the country integrate and how do we reintegrate people from here living in the edge of society, eg the homeless white drug takers, those who refuse to work etc

The ones who aren’t currently integrated are a lost cause. We need to concentrate on future generations and that means reforming the education system so that the next generation is properly educated for life in the uk in terms of language skills and workplace skills. We should have zero, tolerance of any school leavers without adequate standards of reading and writing in English, life skill numeracy, etc. We’ll never deal with worklessness if people are leaving school without workplace skills of adequate communication, comprehension, literacy and numeracy.

Do you think we need to put a much heavier focus on British culture too. Eg less celebrating other cultures religions/history and championing multiculturalism- which I think most now see as a failed experiment and get celebrating British culture both current and past? Going back to old systems of us all knowing the kings and queens, all being able to retell tales of Arthur. All knowing popular hymns. Do you think communities should be encouraged to hold May Day celebrations, kids doing maypole dancing etc?

Do we need to come down harder on anti social behaviour, anti police behaviour?

@Feelingathomenow

I'm almost 40, and didn't learn about all the kings and queens, or tales of Arthur. Have never danced around a maypole.

Yet I am British to the core. (And fwiw feel a connection to the old ruins and the physical land of this country... only realised how much after spending significant time abroad!)

I don't think harking back to a bygone era will help things. We have to work out where to go now, not try to go to a fake version of the past.

I don't think harking back to a bygone era will help things. We have to work out where to go now, not try to go to a fake version of the past.
Spot on

It's basically harder to integrate people when they are arriving in very large numbers. For effective integration, new arrivals need to be very much a minority so they can be absorbed into the existing culture.
Otherwise ghettoisation happens, as we're seeing.

Being middle/upper middle class and highly educated helps, there's already a lot more homogeny of global culture among this class.

Sweden is a good example to look at. You can have a high tax, high trust, high welfare society only if it's a culturally coherent, homogenous society.
Once it becomes more diverse, that model badly falls apart.

a slight detour, but one factor is that, due to advances in technology, you can access media from your original country. When I ran english conversation classes, you'd have thought that watching the BBC, or an english-speaking channel, would be a good way of becoming familiar with english. But all the learners watched channels in their own language.

I'm guessing having our anti-avoidance laws thwarted was one reason some wanted to leave the EU?

Personally, I'm not too bothered about excessive teaching of customs, culture etc. I'm more bothered about practicalities of getting people up to the standard where they can live a "normal" adult life. There's a place for a bit of customs and culture, but I wouldn't obsess about it, whether the culture of the UK nor the culture of other countries. If someone can't read/write and isn't engaged with schooling, then they're not going to be engaged with other cultures/customs either.

Being unable to change our VAT rules without EU approval was supposed to be a big problem according to politicians over the past couple decades who always trotted out that line as the reason they couldn't change certain problematic VAT laws, but now we've left, we're still not changing the most damaging VAT rules that previously politicians blamed on the EU. Yet, we can change VAT rules on private schools, which is probably one of the less important VAT issues that needs addressing.

Oh I agree those things are important, but people really need to reengage with what makes societies work.,there’s been that much propaganda over the years over how we are all the same, cultures just merrily run along side, how individualism is the most importablnt thing.,yet all destroy cohesion. Cohesion is importsnt for community and for a functioning society.,

I’m thinking more about laws that were designed to prevent the channelling of UK profits overseas.

@Hunglikeapolevaulter yes that's why I mentioned about Sweden on my previous post - same too when we lived in Denmark - it works if everyone tends to be of a similar mindset and pulling in same direction

On the related topic of cities that have gone to shit, here’s a good article on London:

thecritic.co.uk/london-has-lost-its-soul/

Honestly the closure of the Smithfield and Billingsgate markets is tragic.

It was true we could not change VAT rules incepted before being in the EU - so it was a UK government that imposed tax on tampons, towels etc as being 'wasteful' paper products - the men who voted on this were probably old enough that their mother's ladies' maids used to sew towels for them! It was a good one to annoy women with.
But what about anti-avoidance rules being thwarted, meaning tax in the UK went to the EU (as did VAT btw)? I'm curious about that.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/company-taxation-manual/ctm34131

this outlines some of the background

etctax.co.uk/knowledge_centre/eu-law-uk-tax/

Bravo, can't agree more. On today's thread when mothers were condoning a toddler hitting another toddler in a playgroup by saying 'he is testing boundaries' and I told how my gran 'cured' my toddler brother of hitting me by slapping the proverbial out of him and he never hit anyone ever again, I was accused of being a troll?????

Where is the idea that British culture isn't celebrated? Go on any holiday in the UK and you can find interesting museums, celebrations of our industrial heritage, local festivals. Not to mention theatres, libraries, art galleries....which still exist!

Always wondered how many people who bemoan the supposed death of British culture actually themselves go to Church or volunteer in their local museum.

We are going to a carol service tomorrow. Loads of people go. There is a local museum celebrating the local industry the town was built on. There is at least one heritage funded lottery project celebrating a niche aspect of local history in my town. Every British town and city is like this.

Your gran 'slapped the shit' out of a toddler? And you think this is a good thing. Do you slap the shit out of your own toddlers?