My town has really changed

[CatbellsOnTheSeashore]

In a confusing and not very pleasant way.

It was gradually changing for the worse before covid, but the pandemic seemed to accelerate it, and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

It became more insular whilst more populated, the population increased quite a bit over the past 5 yrs. More and more dereliction, low council maintenance and an influx of troubled people housed around the town centre, which is now a no-go zone. Areas surrounding have steadily grown worse also, as it seems to be spilling out.

What does feel really different is that there are now lots of groups of men, hanging around drinking or sat on pavements together (not begging). Drugs took over the local nature paths and canal walks so now there are large groups of people out of their heads lying on old sofas at the locks, it's really grim. Women who used to cycle and run in these areas have more or less moved elsewhere or stopped.

More and more standard sized houses in low to middle income areas are becoming HMO's, yet with poor refuse organisation and not enough parking. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are literally trails of dog shit in the streets in many areas, too, which pretty much hangs in the air and the place stinks. That, and skunk.

We live in a decent part of town but it is coming closer, and I only have that perk due to inheriting my parents bungalow. More and more people are moving out.

On a walk to Sainsbury's yesterday two guys were holding onto a sign pole hovering over a bin. As I passed by one of them vomited into the bin and then spat/gobbed an inch from my feet - he didn't notice me particularly, but it was quite sudden or I'd have given them a wide berth.
This isn't unusual now.

I know people usually blame the cost of living and covid, etc, but this was definitely on the rise before. There is far more noise pollution as more buildings go up, usually industrial, and the roads are a nightmare. Infrastructure for actual people is decreasing.
That said, I don't think most of these people were thriving before, so it isn't a sudden change. It is as if a new kind of culture is growing, that doesn't care a damn about anything. Everything is vandalised or shat on. More and more windows are broken in properties close to the town centre, and I doubt most of these people were thriving before the pandemic hit.

Is this bad luck or is anything like it happening elsewhere?
We are definitely looking to move away.

@Feelingathomenow if you think is remainers are patronising then what is Bob? and for most Bobs who says they do their research - his research often consists of GB News and the Daily Express or Telegraph or Mail if they fancy themselves as a bit more intellectual - Bobs business has no EU component in order to stay in business and he doesn't give a shit that most international businesses tend to find now it makes more sense to set up in Netherlands, Germany or Eire - and for all his flat cap and pint spouting, he has failed to see that most who have benefited are more of the Rees Mogg types laughing their socks off in a Hampshire pile and can't name a single thing that has benefited the average Joe because he personally has no wish to live or work abroad in the EU without numerous hoops , his job/business doesn't depend on it- as far as he's concerned the UK is amazing and we can basically become Australia without the weather - isolated, expensive and dependent on China- but at least they have the weather!!

You say those who voted remain are patronising? I think it's pretty patronising trying to pretend that the majority out there 'did their research' - did you listen the vox pops at the time-? They spent inordinate amounts of time in working class towns, rarely sought opinion in Bristol, Bath, Oxford, Chester, York etc and the sheer amount of 'we need to get rid of the Muslims' stuff was huge- they couldn't answer though when asked 'what does this have to do with membership of EU ? And few of them could answer anything from a commercial trading example - and the few exceptions I saw were a bunch of hedge funders and a few farmers ( who I think got it totally wrong and envisaged something very different). -

Someone we know very well was a merchant banker and was laughing about the money he could make off a Brexit vote- betting on it- 8 years on he's incredibly pissed off that it's caused him various issues in his post retirement job that is nothing to do with banking and has a large EU component in it.

The Eu isn't perfect by a long way, but economically and investment wise it doesn't make sense one iota not to be in it- I'm with Geldof on this 'better to be inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in' - the only investment you are likely to get is in services trying to flaunt EU rules - not really the kind of business you want- I don't even think we 100% have to be in the EU to turn things around - I think a Norway type EEA arrangement would kick start the economy - and to be frank I think maybe only 25% hangs onto the idea that Brexit makes sense- and that's mainly old people.

Heard in the news yesterday, that the shortest life expectancy is in Blackpool. It’s the first time a Scottish town hasn’t been the dubious ‘winner’ of this accolade since records began/last x no of years Etc ( can’t remember since when). 73 years, compared to 83 years elsewhere.

Can wise, educated and thoughtful Bob let us know when we are going to start experiencing some positive benefits from Brexit such as cheaper clothes, footwear and food as opined by Ress Mogg. I think the average person who may not be as wise and patient as Bob may be getting tired of waiting.

Well, I watched the town go so downhill over the past 20 yrs, with a fairly harsh acceleration since covid. I don't like the fucking negativity either, but forcing myself to find it's up sides isn't working. I could sit it out in Parbold and live in my car, but that wouldn't magic it away.
Have you seen the open drug use in the town centre? Recent knife hold up in B&M's in the afternoon?
Everything decent has gone.
The only shops or pursuits remaining are football and poundshops.
Everything remaining is for men.
Everyone wears black, it's like a symbol of depression there. When I go away and return, everyone looks crushed, hopeless, poor. Remember when this was a more diverse place, when students came, people rushed in for the local music scene? When there were markets and art galleries and decent rentals? All gone now.

And it most definitely has got worse - I never used to see gangs of men and boys taking over public space, nature walks, throwing things at swans, smashing trolleys into the bus station glass partitions, pissing against cash machines during a busy afternoon and fighting over bags of booze outside of Cafe Nero a few yrs back.
Even the local accent has changed, I can barely understand it. It's new, it's insular, and it's in trouble.

@Lifeomars lol!! And yep - there aren't really any as I said below- and you know the old 'we hold all the cards' - nope we didn't - pure British arrogance at its best

@CatbellsOnTheSeashore any reason you haven't moved? Because I would have been out of there like a shot- even if it was just to somewhere like The Wirral .

Previously, it was DH's work, in a nutshell.
It's almost torn us apart, as we have dealt with it so differently. He is about putting his head down and pushing through but I have seen it as a waste of life and time for many years.

We are currently looking around but undecided where yet. I love the north, especially the landscape, so will have to do some research. We are both able to move now, work wise.

This is so true. My home town is full of people clinging on to this 1950s style attitude, bigging up the local fairground because it was nice about 40 years ago when now it's an embarrassing dump, moaning about stuff the council hasn't done for decades and never will again, why cant I have a cup of coffee for 70p type of thing. Its just pointless.

I started volunteering for a charity about a year ago. To be honest I don’t think any politician of any political hue really understands how bad things are and the depth and breadth of issues.
For example, I’ve been shocked at the poor levels of adult literacy. Generalising here but this doesn’t seem to be the “older” generation as some might assume but younger people. Under 40. Can’t complete a simple form, can’t read a meter etc etc. Many people find modern life very stressful and this isn’t about technology necessarily. I do think there are lots of people who would have been better off mentally in the past where they could work in a factory job, have their mates at work, take their pay home in cash in a brown envelope every week. Basically life was a lot simpler and there wasn’t this constant buzz of “life admin” and things to complete otherwise you get in trouble and your life becomes messy because you’ve missed this deadline or that deadline.

My town is the same, and with the recent announcement of a large factory closing next year with the loss of upwards 1000 jobs, I feel it will get worse. The town centre is run down, lots of empty units, the shops are mainly chicken shops, poundland, bookies and then there are the dozens of hand car wash places or barbers which must be money laundering in some capacity as they are often not busy. The begging is getting worse, approaching the car when stationery at traffic lights. Just grim and it's sad as I had a great childhood/teenage years living here. I do want to move away but daugther doesn't want to, and my parents live here (they are separated) and Dad is showing signs of dementia, he has no one other than me so I'm stuck here really. I don't know what the answer is, as it's not just about money is it, the mental health issues, the lack of infastructure, the budget constraints the council have, just all a bit depressing really.

Luton? Dunstable? Loss of Vauxhall van building?

What is Bob? Bob is tired. Tired of people who were sucked in by carefully chosen people in the interviews on streets by outlets that were very pro EU like the BBC. Bob even commented at the time how the BBC always showed an middle age overweight woman with her handbag falling off her shoulder or a builder type (pref with tattoos and bald head) as the leave voters and the suited and booted remain voters. The funny thing is people were taken in by this and thought this was representative. Bob knows many highly intelligent people, many of whom are business owners who voted leave and stand by their vote. None of them watch GB News, they can undertake research very well.

One the things that often stands out about remain voters is they don’t seem to be able to cope with anything but a (false)stereotype of a leave voter. They are very likely to the woke brigade thinking anyone who doesn’t agree with their TWAW mantra is stupid and bigoted. It’s the exact same thought process that views are black and white, right or wrong. They portray themselves as the enlightened ones, usually by building a strawman of the non- compliant. This kind of thinking common to the left is what is encouraging Bob to go back to the pub this lunchtime.

Just for the record i don't sort people in to groups of leave/remain or left/right.

It is a media driven shit show, and I wish we could go back to where people didn't make that the only bloody topic of every conversation.
I miss those days, when dissecting someone's politics was the last thing we'd think to do ..

It stifles conversation, creates endless pointless spats and get's literally nothing resolved, ever.
I often wonder if someone or something prefers us this way.

And to add: Neither 'side' listens to the other anyway. It's like everyone speaks from a manual or headline, so we never meet and speak together as human beings with a shared concern. Our country is worrying some of us, and unless we can find a point of connection that bypasses party political rhetoric, we're fucked.

Well Bob never agreed with Jacob Rees Mogg. Bob is old enough and wise enough not to believe any politicians. Bob does his own research. For Bob it was never about cheap shoes, he only buys them every few years anyway. It was about legal systems and independence, for good or bad. As he says, for him it’s the long game, benefits might not become apparent to all during his lifetime. Sometimes we plant trees knowing we will never see them grown.

Every person had a vote, Bob respects democracy and understands part of that is allowing people to vote which ever way they like. Bob knows there were plenty of people putting an x in either box that day that hadn’t a clue what they were voting for. The same as any election.

@CatbellsOnTheSeashore honestly lovely I would def move and compromise on the house if necessary but live somewhere that lifts your spirits- everywhere has some gritty elements ( we have too even here in Bath) but going back to my hometown the other week brought it home how much where you live can affect your mindset- certain things had improved- but the town centre was grim- and certainly a lot grimmer than when I lived there and felt aggressive and very unpleasant . I honestly don't know what the solution is but despite the fact it had very cheap housing it would depress me to live there - and I would never ever go into the town . That's no way in my opinion to live-

Absolutely no shits given about EU. I’m sorry your happiness in life depends on it.
I love my country, so much that I actively try to buy British.
I sorry you think we are all thick but hey, not everyone is naturally intelligent.
Im sorry old people still love Britain and don’t want this amount of change.
Let’s make the most of Brexit by buying British goods where we can. Rather than ranting over it still.

@Feelingathomenow bit of a shame the leave campaign didn't add in as a caveat 'by the way you won't see any benefits in your lifetime' - that might have focussed research a little better for those unlike Bob that presumed they meant 'advantages within a year or so'

My FIL voted for it in his mid 70s - he now thinks it was an absolute pile of tosh - designed to help rich people protect their assets and sees no advantages at all- his view has changed to ours that if their was no EU and we were all on a level independent playing field then yes the UK would have certain advantages- as it is we've handed our best business that needs a single market and customs union to be competitive to the EU 'on a plate' and made it pretty uninvestable in apart from local businesses that have no international component to them. People forget that somewhere like the USA is effectively its own 'EU' large enough to still warrant investment just for the US market alone.

Luton, yes.

@MMOC that's your choice- but my views are sod all to do with happiness, more to do with economics and commercial reality and future investment - as I would like the UK to be doing well - and at the moment it's not even a first tier choice for many businesses. but clearly it doesn't affect you ,so that's fine- I do buy British when appropriate- I buy all my meat and veg at the farm shop etc- I was perfectly able to do that pre Brexit too - so Brexit hasn't suddenly 'enabled' that. I don't think 'all' Brexit voters are thick by the way , my friend certainly isn't thick but he's an opportunist and saw the chance to make a lot of cash by betting on it - has now bit him on the arse. I just think many are short sighted as to the overall economic effects and naturally expected things to 'improve' and they haven't partly because over £400 billion was spent and lost to bring it about - it wasn't a 'cost neutral economic move. We will though just have to agree to disagree.

@MMOC and you are very wrong thinking that all remainers don't love their country - many do and that's why they don't want it turned to shit

I would never said all remainers hate their country.
Where did you get that from?

Bob, respects that others might have their own views and priorities. Universal sugferage means that everyone has a right to a vote based on what they believe, Bob knows many people voted remain on the basis that they thought “better the devil you know” rather than any in-depth knowledge of the pros and cons of the EU. He still chuckles to himself remembering the conversation on the table next to him in Costa in an affluent area.

Mum ”I can’t believe people voted to leave, I mean, what happens if I break my leg in Spain?”

Daughter “”I know, are people thick? We will have to go on holiday to Brittany because that’s still part of Britain”

(just to clarify this was an actual overheard conversation in an actual Costa the day after voting).

Bob isn’t responsible for what others thought. If people are still trusting politicians - more fool them. People need to learn to do their own research (if only on the availability of travel insurance and the constituent parts of Britain).

Bob too has a daughter in law who thinks he regrets his vote. Tbh he just got so fucking tired of her droning on he made something up so she would just bugger off.,

Bob likes Iron Maiden (because as we have seen Bob is erudite and smart) he particularly likes the lyrics to “Hell on Earth”

“You dance on the graves who bled for us
Do you really think they'll come for us?
Knowledge and virtue, taken by lust
Live on the edge of those that you trust
You think that you have all the answers for all
In your arrogant way only one way to fall
Burning a lamp that is fire in your hands
Taking you further from these lands
Love in anger, life in danger
Lost in anger, life in danger”

Bobs just ordered a pint of Trooper

I think men swaggering with 'butch' dogs are more a deprived area symptom. I don't go in Booths (it's in Lytham St Annes, millionaire fare for most people in Lancashire as is any shop in Southport) but M & S seems equally depressed - mind, I went in there the other day and I could not see one dress I liked, and only one jacket. This might have to do with the depressed looks - or winter?
But there is a belt of deprivation and the privileged don't care much about the people suffering it.

Ah there's definitely something wrong with clothes now, no matter where you buy them. Even GoOutdoors has better quality than most 'high end high street' web stores.

The drab stuff does make people look more depressed, but I do think that a lot of the black stuff like hoodies and saggy bottoms don't help, but that's for S&B!!

I've seen the 'men's' men with butch dogs in many areas to be honest, they often have a bit of cash to flash, too.

And American candy shops, mobile phone accessory shops, hand car washes, ethnic food shops, nail bars, etc. They're usually in high cost places (high rent etc), yet have far too many workers for how busy they are (usually aren't).