My town has really changed

[CatbellsOnTheSeashore]

In a confusing and not very pleasant way.

It was gradually changing for the worse before covid, but the pandemic seemed to accelerate it, and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

It became more insular whilst more populated, the population increased quite a bit over the past 5 yrs. More and more dereliction, low council maintenance and an influx of troubled people housed around the town centre, which is now a no-go zone. Areas surrounding have steadily grown worse also, as it seems to be spilling out.

What does feel really different is that there are now lots of groups of men, hanging around drinking or sat on pavements together (not begging). Drugs took over the local nature paths and canal walks so now there are large groups of people out of their heads lying on old sofas at the locks, it's really grim. Women who used to cycle and run in these areas have more or less moved elsewhere or stopped.

More and more standard sized houses in low to middle income areas are becoming HMO's, yet with poor refuse organisation and not enough parking. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are literally trails of dog shit in the streets in many areas, too, which pretty much hangs in the air and the place stinks. That, and skunk.

We live in a decent part of town but it is coming closer, and I only have that perk due to inheriting my parents bungalow. More and more people are moving out.

On a walk to Sainsbury's yesterday two guys were holding onto a sign pole hovering over a bin. As I passed by one of them vomited into the bin and then spat/gobbed an inch from my feet - he didn't notice me particularly, but it was quite sudden or I'd have given them a wide berth.
This isn't unusual now.

I know people usually blame the cost of living and covid, etc, but this was definitely on the rise before. There is far more noise pollution as more buildings go up, usually industrial, and the roads are a nightmare. Infrastructure for actual people is decreasing.
That said, I don't think most of these people were thriving before, so it isn't a sudden change. It is as if a new kind of culture is growing, that doesn't care a damn about anything. Everything is vandalised or shat on. More and more windows are broken in properties close to the town centre, and I doubt most of these people were thriving before the pandemic hit.

Is this bad luck or is anything like it happening elsewhere?
We are definitely looking to move away.

Ah fair enough, Wigan is one of the worst. It's been a regular on the Worst Places to Live in the UK lists for a long time - I only know as I come from another north west town that often features on those lists. I wish I could give you hope but honestly I'd sell up and move elsewhere if I were you. Few places are as bad. Other places may have declined to some extent but not nearly so bad. You could easily move to somewhere better and still affordable by the sounds of it.

That’s horrible and sad op. I don’t think Tories can be blamed for everything. I’m a farmer and have lived on the farm all my life. J have never seen so much litter as the last few years. People literally throw monster cans and kfc bags out their window as they drive past our farm. Growing up that never would have happened. There’s a definite cultural shift and I think it’s connected to consumerism.

I don’t think it’s just a small town thing as it’s definitely the same in my medium sized city. Just because it’s not happening in your city, doesn’t mean it’s not happening in others.

Our local town is OK (but very small) but I was shocked when we visited Lancaster after attending the Uni open day. Loads of drunken drugged up blokes sat around on the benches shouting at each other. Loads of vape/betting/charity shops.

The area around the Uni nightclub looked run down and dirty and we were a bit nervous about leaving the car in the nearby car park. Not sure I'd want to visit at night. If DD actually goes there I wish she could live on campus for the three years.

I think society has changed ,people don't go out shopping on a Saturday like they used to they shop on line ,on the rare occasion I go out in the evening pubs etc are dead ,nightlife 20 years ago used to be buzzing plus all the other social problems such as drugs ,homelessness etc.

Is it money in the end? And a fairly reliable on the ground police force? Also good shops that people want to visit eg. M and S, Next etc. have moved out to retail parks. We were always working class, ex mining/steel etc. but we had a vibrant market square with shops, big library, etc. all around. You could spend a few hours there easily. The market was immaculate- the council had a big shire horse and cart circling the stalls, cardboard and things were constantly cleared, kids had photos taken by the horse. It wasn't posh, but it was safe and nice, and at Christmas it was no problem to take kids to a pantomime and walk back across the market to the car parks, admiring the lights. Now you couldn't think of it.

The dog poo thing is everywhere and it's just down to an overpopulation of dogs.

Other elements I also recognise where I live. I don't think this can be laid at the feet of one political party, it's more complex than that.

I’m London based, but work with families and organisations outside London.
It feels to be like London, whist I don’t deny there are problems, is becoming more of a bubble. I’m seeing much much starker circumstances commonly outside London now than before covid. In areas that I’d considered on a part with east London, issues but functional.
Its pretty confronting when you are presented with the level of issues family are facing that are compounded to a point where it’s hard to signpost effectively

It sounds like several towns I can think of in my part of the UK.

how does a group who never cared for politics in the first place suddenly become more aggressive, anti social and happy to spread dog shit?
[...] this particular demographic (usually working class or not working) [...]

So hang on, you're identifying working class people as the issue here? I think a lot of people will take issue with that suggestion.

Dog poo deposits and aggression is not confined to the working class, you know.

This makes me so sad, I went to Uni there (20 years ago!) it was beautiful and I never felt unsafe. Area around the Sugarhouse was always a little ropey but as long as you stayed the town side of the river it was fine. The biggest cause of anti social behaviour at that time was students!

I used to work in a small town not too far from Glasgow. I sometimes saw men spitting in the street during the day, and once saw a man pissing up against a wall of a supermarket in the town centre. Something in me clicked and I decided to move away to the South East of England. That was 35 years ago so don't know what that town or others in the West of Scotland are like now. I do visit my home city of Glasgow quite regularly and love it but feel sad about the levels of deprivation that exist in some areas as life is so hard for some.

I wonder how 14 yrs of the tories actually created that specific kind of change...

What about the decades of Labour Councils (with thumping majorities) who actually run the place? Do they not bear some responsibility? Or are they just passive observers of the managed decline?

I’m in the south. Commuter town which had a great high street. Low unemployment. Our town centre is horrendous now. Massive drugs culture. Albanian gangsters controlling the drug supplies and money laundering shops have taken over half the high street. Corner boys hang around and the benches and seating areas are taken over by the drunks who live at the homeless refuge. It’s absolutely shocking.

It's ok down here in my city on the south coast. My part of town has definitely gone up massively (in standard and also price of course) since I last lived here 20 years ago. The famous city centre nearby has always had a mix of boutique independent vibes plus hen/stag do AND a smattering of homeless/drunk/drug issues and this is still there but no worse than before. I think we are lucky to live here. But it is expensive. In the residential areas I know in London it's pretty good still too - although somewhere in the middle in terms of money//lifestyle rather than say Chelsea or Tower Hamlets extremes.

At least it's not the foreigners

I’m sure there are issues around ease of access to drugs, loss of jobs and other contextual factors that account for some of this.

In general though our culture has much lower expectations of public behaviour than it used to. Things like public drunkenness and urination are not really taboo any more.

I’m not sure poverty can be blamed for this entirely. My parents both came from poverty and no one in their families would have behaved this way. Sofas along the canal, sick in the streets- this is substance abuse and homelessness related to abuse. I suppose the political classes could be blamed for lack of policing and I think a lot of this is due to the drugs trade winning and a proliferation of cheap drugs in smaller and mid-sized towns.

A lot of this traces back to Cameron/Osborne era austerity. Canals used to be managed by the public sector until Cameron cut the number of public bodies. Sounds reasonable, right? Well now the Canals and Rivers Trust is a charity relying on public donations.

That "benefits bill" they had to get down? £70 billion is going to private landlords over the next 5 years. If private landlords put their rates up, the benefits bill goes up too.

At least 2/3 of councils' budgets go on care costs, again, mostly going to private companies.

I’m in Ireland and the same thing is happening in the town I live in. We had a General Election here last Friday and the same government have been voted in again. It’s beyond depressing.

In the town I’m in the crime/drug use is largely caused by foreigners.two drug busts, million pound illegal weed business running in an abandoned building

It does seem that the shittier the area the more likely it is to have a labour run council

The housing situation has a lot to do with it. If you can buy a house, you can settle into an area and start getting involved in community life. Job stability is another benefit. If you rent and you're being moved on or live in an HML, there isn't the care there. Not to tar every renter with the same brush but poor quality housing has an impact.

I'd say do we live in the same town but it's been this way long before covid

OP I totally understand what you are saying.

I grew up with a single mum on a council estate. She worked all hours to keep the house going and money was always very tight. But our house was spotless and the outside of our home was always clean and tidy, leaves swept, weeded, flowers in pots.

The estate we lived on was always an estate but it was generally tidy, the odd few grubby houses but generally just a regular estate.

if you take a walk round her estate now it looks like a third world country. Flytipping everywhere, shopping trolleys, dog mess. Drug dealing in plain sight. Bass music booming from windows, kids driving on mopeds, Rubbish just everywhere. People just check whatever they want out on the street and leave it to become someone else’s problem.

It is a new breed of person who just does not give a toss about anyone else and anything outside their front door is not their problem. I do not believe that being poor is to blame and being poor is not an excuse. Everyone has to take ownership of their actions

The family across the street who chucks their used nappies onto the pavement outside their door to pile up instead or putting them in a bin like everyone else. Are they doing this because they are low income or because of a conservative government? Or out of sheer laziness and disregard for how their actions affect others. You tell me.