My town has really changed

[CatbellsOnTheSeashore]

In a confusing and not very pleasant way.

It was gradually changing for the worse before covid, but the pandemic seemed to accelerate it, and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

It became more insular whilst more populated, the population increased quite a bit over the past 5 yrs. More and more dereliction, low council maintenance and an influx of troubled people housed around the town centre, which is now a no-go zone. Areas surrounding have steadily grown worse also, as it seems to be spilling out.

What does feel really different is that there are now lots of groups of men, hanging around drinking or sat on pavements together (not begging). Drugs took over the local nature paths and canal walks so now there are large groups of people out of their heads lying on old sofas at the locks, it's really grim. Women who used to cycle and run in these areas have more or less moved elsewhere or stopped.

More and more standard sized houses in low to middle income areas are becoming HMO's, yet with poor refuse organisation and not enough parking. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are literally trails of dog shit in the streets in many areas, too, which pretty much hangs in the air and the place stinks. That, and skunk.

We live in a decent part of town but it is coming closer, and I only have that perk due to inheriting my parents bungalow. More and more people are moving out.

On a walk to Sainsbury's yesterday two guys were holding onto a sign pole hovering over a bin. As I passed by one of them vomited into the bin and then spat/gobbed an inch from my feet - he didn't notice me particularly, but it was quite sudden or I'd have given them a wide berth.
This isn't unusual now.

I know people usually blame the cost of living and covid, etc, but this was definitely on the rise before. There is far more noise pollution as more buildings go up, usually industrial, and the roads are a nightmare. Infrastructure for actual people is decreasing.
That said, I don't think most of these people were thriving before, so it isn't a sudden change. It is as if a new kind of culture is growing, that doesn't care a damn about anything. Everything is vandalised or shat on. More and more windows are broken in properties close to the town centre, and I doubt most of these people were thriving before the pandemic hit.

Is this bad luck or is anything like it happening elsewhere?
We are definitely looking to move away.

The clothes that are in fashion at the moment are awful. 20 years ago most of it would have been considered pyjamas and no one would have worn it out the house, now it's costing hundreds of pounds and people wear it for nights out.

@Seekingstyle You preferred tracksuits?

I preferred when people made an effort in their appearance. I'm sure the general attitude of slobbing around in how people dress is a direct reflection on the mood of society at the moment. Everything is very very run down, towns, people, fashion, mood...

Poverty, overcrowding, drink and drugs, changes in shopping habits all contribute but I do think a cultural shift plays a part. Our culture has been more individualistic than many other cultures in other parts of the world, for centuries but I think this increased dramatically in the latter part of the last century and the trend has continued.

Societies that prioritise social harmony and can have their disadvantages: conformism, “punishment” of difference but they also have advantages. My DH is WC and grew up on a large sink estate in our northern city. Everyone was poor and poorer materially than the people who live there now:, fewer clothes, toys, no takeaways, no meals out, no holiday or if lucky a caravan on the coast once a year (only once in DH’s entire time at home). However there was a strong social cohesion that meant that people rarely behaved in an anti-social manner on their home ground. If they did other people would step in to police it. People valued decency and while we sneer at “keeping up appearances” - if it means not slinging your nappies out of the door or screaming profanities at each other in your garden in the early hours then the majority benefit.

We have friends still on the estate and there are plenty of decent people of all ages trying to live good lives there but they are under siege from the shouting, screaming, filth, drug dealing, noise and weed smoking of a growing minority who give no shits, can’t be told what to do by anybody and who will fill in anyone that fancies trying, - or if the nosy bitch/ bastard is elderly maybe just break their windows, encourage their kids to terrorise them and put dogshit through the letterbox. The community can’t sort them out because they can’t be shamed, they don’t care, and if anyone bigger or scarier than them “has a word” then they’ll be facing police charges.

We have definitely cut back on police numbers in the ground too much but it isn’t all down to that.

I grew up in a very poor area. There was still anti social behaviour and crime, but it was not as dangerous as today. I think the reduction in police has had a major impact on anti social behaviour.

@LightDrizzle I agree about that and I actually blame selling off social housing for some of this- in the past it was way more mixed and plenty of decent working ordered families had social housing as well as older people who stayed once their family left home - these days there is so little of it in many areas due to sell offs that you end up with far more problematic families, who are higher up the enormous lists and dwarf the numbers of ordered decent families who struggle to get high up the list -

I worked in homelessness for over 14 years, families do let homeless people sleep out.
I worked for 5 years with young (16-21) homeless in central London. Parents and families do chuck their young people out when it gets too difficult, expensive or just because. A quarter in my day were care leavers or former cared for.

I think a problem is letting in too many single men.
It may well be worse when students and health workers aren't allowed to bring their partners and children.

Some towns look similar to how England looked in the 1970's. Grey dirty and hopeless.

Used to shop at the Arndale as a teen. Loved C and A opposite the Wimpey, pink flamingoes etc. Luton is one of those towns which is always perceived negatively, but got friends who live there and are happy there, and there are nice areas there.

The problem is not the dogs- they have to defecate the same as you and me; the negligent dog owners are the problem.

If it had been legalised, taxed and regulated then it woukd be a boost for the economy, bad for organised crime and it would be less strong (and foul smelling).

We get the worst of both. It's mostly decriminalised but not legalised.

Of course it isn't the dog's fault! Hopefully that ought to be obvious. We have had a few locally who are kept by a man who abuses them, have tried getting attention for them for over 5 years and nothing. They start out as beautiful, healthy dogs, which die within 2 years and are quickly replaced. No one cares, about the barking (howling in terror really), or the fact that they're left in a small garden for up to 15 hours alone sometimes.

Some people 'use' and abuse dogs for god know's what reason, because they're shitty people.

And believe it or not we are in a nicer part of town.

I've learned quite a lot from this thread, it has also confirmed some fears, and made me a bit more depressed, but what can we do? We can only try to make a decent life, as the odds are stacked against going back to brighter times.

From a BBC News story today:

Around 158,000 children missed at least half of their classes in the autumn and spring terms of the last academic year, it said, citing the latest DfE figures.
In Knowsley, more than a quarter of pupils were classed as persistently absent - meaning they missed 10% of the school calendar, or more.
Blackpool, Bradford, Middlesbrough, Sunderland, Bristol, Torbay and Plymouth followed Knowsley with the next highest rates of persistent absence - with between 23% and 25% of pupils missing significant periods of school.

This doesn't help.

I worked in social housing twenty odd years ago. We had rough estates but not no go areas. There were mainly working families, long term unemployed, some families with far too many children who were pretty feral, but you could still reason with the parents and in the main they attempted to keep their kids in line. There was always a little drug use and petty crime, but I always felt safe to go anywhere alone.

now the town revolves around drugs and county lines. It’s the main business of the high street. The Albanian gangs with their fake shops and barbers launder the money. The corner boys and bike couriers take the orders and zoom it round town to their customers on electric bikes wearing black balaclavas. Big gangs of London kids catch the train down and have machete fights. And the sad druggies stagger around after their fix.

How have the authorities not clocked in to the money laundering shops and stamped it out ?

I just don’t know. We have a Turkish kitchen near us. Opens for a couple of weeks, closes, has a massive refit, opens, closes again. Yet a look at their books on companies house says they are making a massive profit. Same as modern day slavery. It’s just the scale of the problem.

Is this on the South coast, @Flamez ?

It is

A lot of these money laundering type places in Wigan too, and they're often full, which means they are either legitimate or employing some very good and dedicated 'actors' who are certainly putting the time in!

We even had a local house (a detached bungalow) used as a drug farm for 2 years, no one cared. And this is a place full of homeowners. The place has been derelict since it was finally busted, although a Muslim family appear to have bought it for less than £40K. They won't employ anyone to do it up and are very slowly hammering it to death. They are either very, very poor or just incapable of communicating. It's sad.

Of course they know. Just as the police know which properties are cannabis farms - they obviously smell it when walking past just like everyone else. It's obviously a policy from the top to ignore the "street level" crimes as the police and other authorities try to go for the top people.

It is infuriating. We’ve got a huge traveller site near us that from time to time gets raided and fire arms/drugs/slaves/abused animals are discovered. But it starts up again. It’s on a main dual carriageway and you regularly see the most dismal looking people trudging there with bags of shopping and insufficient clothing who are highly likely to be slaves. Nail bars, car washes, brothels. It’s everywhere.

This is what infuriates me. There’s so much energy (and money) spent on things that happened hundreds of years ago, criticising countries, demanding reparations, toppling statues of long dead men into rivers. Yet those same people are heading to the nail bars, having their cars washed by victims of slavery.without a hint of irony they are funding slavery they can prevent whilst hysterical over things where all involved are long dead.

It might just be me, but I don't think Tina at the nail bar is toppling statues somehow.
Could be wrong though...

Tina might not be, but some of the mobs that do this kind of thing, or indeed encourage the National Trust into their self congratulatory anachronistic horror will certainly be frequenting such places. It’s a ridiculous state of affairs. Acting in absolute horror at the actions of long forgotten generations because it will have no practical impact on your life, yet take part in supporting the modern day slave trade so you can have colourful finger tips or get a dopamine him by having a poorly made, stitched by modern day slaves shopping “haul” (God I hate the word).

The gradual decline and disintegration of social mores is so disheartening and doubtful that it’s something the govt can fix. It’s why I love shows like Mortimer and Whitehouse: Gone Fishing because it’s like putting on the rose tinted glasses to look at nostalgia. Same for All Creatures. Life feels hard, frenetic, superficial, too technical and it’s not making people happy.

Well, it wouldn't be any different if we were still in the EU, except we'd still have Roma selling Big Issue in the streets. France is imploding quietly, and Germany has an anti-Semite problem as well as economic problems. Italy and Greece have been on their knees for years because of the Euro, which is the Deutschemark in new colours and favours Germany.

Democracy and sovereignty matter. And I have just travelled to the continent (because the UK is still in Europe, we are not San Seriffe floating across the Atlantic!) without any problems - except the facial recognition thing-a-me-jigs all assume you are a midget (and I have to take off my glasses).
OP of this board lives in Wigan, she says. Has she read 'The Road to Wigan Pier'? We are in recession, as is the world and globalization means global recession.