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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU I told off DH for staring at younger woman?

302 replies

kinsey681 · 02/12/2024 23:28

There's this younger woman at DH's work, must only be late 20s. He co-owns his own small company, but works remotely and is only in the offices once every few months, but pops in if there's something important.

This woman, I'll call her Lara, is doing an internship for a year; she'll leave at the end of 2025. My husband has said how impressive she is because of xyz....even though all of our employees have had comparable CVs.

I wonder if DH has a crush on Lara; he seems to have spent a lot more time talking to her than any of the other young employees, talking sh@t and joking. He's texted her a few times (I see his phone) after these visits, wishing her luck with something, or recommending that she visit somewhere. So, it is all harmless, but he hasn't done this to other employees. I only realised how much he's chatted to her on his office visits on the few times I've also bumped into Lara, outside the office, and she'll mention something, and I'll think: when has my husband been telling her about all of this? He's also apparently commented on her (tight) dress every time he's been in, stupid stuff like: 'oh don't spill the coffee on that..... that's tiny, how did you fit into it?'

The most annoying thing is how I've seen him looking at her when she's bumped into us both. One time, he was just intensely staring at her, just her face luckily, and smiling. I did put my arm around him, kept stroking his arm, but he still just stared at Lara and acted super interested in her inane chat!!

She saw us again a few weeks later, in a public place; my husband noticed her and said hello to her. I put my arm around him again; this time, instead of staring at Lara, he kept looking at her to speak, then down at his phone, then back at her again.... like a robot....I think he maybe knew I was watching him that time!
Lara looks nothing like me; the only similarity is that we're both thin, although she has a different body shape entirely. I have a narrow, thin face and small-ish hazel eyes, short hair. Lara has long hair and large, round eyes.

Anyway, I didn't want to ask DH whether he has a crush or not (would he admit it anyway?), but I have told DH that he needs to be careful how he speaks to/interacts with Lara because young women nowadays can make false accusations about middle-aged, or any, men. I told him not to be too chatty or overfamiliar, and that he should be brief and business-like with her. So, he has mostly done so. I also said that she looks like a kid (she's late 20s/30, but we're 50). A week ago, when he was on an office visit, I went with him, and I told him not to be ages and don't get into a conversation with Lara.

I think Lara has noticed DH's change- she's changed the way she writes messages/emails to him, and seems to avoid him when he comes into the office. She used to chat and share news with him; now she just sends an email like, 'xyz was an issue today.....Best wishes'. When he avoided her in the office last week, making excuses not to chat as I asked him to, she must have noticed as she hasn't sent her usual 'updates for this week' email (they aren't essential for DH to know anyway; it can just be dealt with by others in the office).

Part of me is glad but I also wonder AIBU in making the woman feel awkward?

OP posts:
kinsey681 · 09/12/2024 00:32

ThatTealViewer · 08/12/2024 21:54

I think your behaviour in the OP, on your previous thread, and on this one demonstrates a complete lack of self awareness on your part.

If it wasn’t immediately clear to you that was what I was saying, then I would also question your basic communication skills. I can assure you that everyone else got it.

I know you were you saying that I lack self awareness

OP posts:
kinsey681 · 09/12/2024 00:35

ThatTealViewer · 08/12/2024 21:58

I’m with the others, now. I refuse to believe that anyone can be this obnoxious and obtuse. This is a windup.

If it’s not, please seek professional help, OP.

Edited

I'm not here to get a rise out of people. I'm not that bored. I came on here to vent as I didn't want to discuss this with any friends or family in real life.

OP posts:
whathaveiforgotten · 09/12/2024 06:32

@kinsey681

Yes, I accept that, I suppose I just thought it wasn't.....a vulgar comment

Even if you think that, why do you think sexual harassment has to be 'vulgar'?

If a boss (much older and married in this case, which makes things even worse) said things to an employee "every time he's been in" (because that's how frequently yours is making comments, in your own words) like, for example, "my god, you are absolutely gorgeous" or "your eyes are incredible" then do you not think that would be enough to warrant a bollocking for sexual harassment just because they aren't vulgar?

Your standards for men are far too low. Clearly, because you're more concerned about keeping the interest of a pervy creep than you are turned off by the pervy old creep.

GreyCarpet · 09/12/2024 06:51

Fannyfiggs · 08/12/2024 22:33

When your husband comments on Lara's dress, he's not thinking about the actual dress, he's thinking about Lara's tiny body. Maybe imagining Lara trying the dress on or taking it off.

Lara knows this.

That's why his comments are sleazy.

Sometimes, OP, people post and argue with an OP just to be contrary.

This is not one of those times.

The above poster sums it up nicely.

Lara isn't an idiot. She knows that's exactly what her boss is thinking.

And there's nothing she can do about it.

You’re letting your jealousy of this woman cloud your judgement regarding your husbands behaviour.

And this is also true.

Comments don't have to be 'vulgar'. They just need to make an employee feel uncomfortable. It doesn't matter how often it happens.

Laura, her body shape and her dress are NOT the problem here. Can you see that yet?

Cnidarian · 09/12/2024 07:11

You really need to take a look at your internalised misogyny. This isn't an age thing, many women your age and older would recognise this for what it is and not blame this poor girl for existing and as it sounds being good at her job. How embarrassing that it was another colleague who pointed this out to you, not just you noticing this inappropriate behaviour from your husband. Your reaction to blame her, make sweeping statements about all younger women being this that or the other other are ridiculous, even when you're faced with the evidence from your "nice but bumbling husband who is just not self aware". Her fault, minimise his agency, he just doesn't understand and is in danger from these ferocious young women who might have the audacity to want a comfortable work environment. You should be their ally. Do better. And stop talking about how she looks, you're worse than him. And no, women don't all do that. Anyway if this is genuine take that advice, if not, congratulations.

Codlingmoths · 09/12/2024 07:14

kinsey681 · 02/12/2024 23:59

I never thought of it as sexual harassment, but I suppose nowadays young women would see it that way.

I’m not young and that is sexual harrassment not only in my opinion but in every workplace training I’ve done on the topic in my 15 years of corporate life. It is quite black and white that that is workplace sexual harassment, not a matter of opinion.

Paddymcpaddy · 09/12/2024 07:16

‘but I have told DH that he needs to be careful how he speaks to/interacts with Lara because young women nowadays can make false accusations about middle-aged, or any, men.’

ah yes, of course - these hot young women these days causing problems for the older men.

FFS Op - sounds like if she did have to speak up about your DH being a bit of a creep there would be nothing false about it.

Fannyfiggs · 09/12/2024 07:36

Also, imagine being Lara. Yes she's young, hot and utterly gorgeous but she's also fantastic at her job. She's just completed a really great piece of work that she's really proud of. Her colleagues have congratulated her and she's feeling really positive about her career development.

The 'big boss' is in and she's quite excited about what he's going to say to her about her work because he's the joint owner so has quite a bit of clout and could make or break her career. He opens his mouth and says 'oh watch you don't get coffee on your dress / my goodness, that dress is tiny, how do you get into it). Lara's gutted but feels she needs to play along because it's 'the big boss' 🙄

That wouldn't happen to a young man in the same situation would it?

PoliteLion · 09/12/2024 07:46

So were you chugging along in the comfort of thinking you're his type and you knew what type of women to watch out for as a threat but now you're seeing him utterly bewitched (pun intended) by a younger AND curvy-skinny AND girly girl type of woman, all things you cannot compete with. Sometimes people get so sick by their spouse they want an affair or the next relationship with someone utterly different but most often as we've been saying is that a person can fancy many types at the same time or at different life stages.
He pulled back and so did she when you mentioned his behaviour that's a good sign that he cares about his marriage and work. As I said, I'm surprised you've only just noticed your husband a. Eye up another woman and b. Fancy other types.

In thr mid of this don't forget that you also look good and by the sound of it have a few quid so if this marriage ends it's not like you've no options.

With Lara she might be going along for the sake of her career while utterly creeped or not but even if she was manipulating and charming him the onus is on him to be professional and protect his reputation and marriage. There will always be flirty women with loose morals and a thing for rich older men, he has to be the one blocking these attempts because you can't prevent him for cheating if he wants to he will always find a way.

Galdownunder · 09/12/2024 07:48

Dear me OP, if this is real the misogyny is coming from inside the house.

Alucard55 · 09/12/2024 08:30

If this is genuine then you are an utter disgrace of a woman. Lara must think you are a couple of weirdos the way you both carry on.

Bumblebeestiltskin · 09/12/2024 09:21

kinsey681 · 09/12/2024 00:35

I'm not here to get a rise out of people. I'm not that bored. I came on here to vent as I didn't want to discuss this with any friends or family in real life.

You may not be bored, but you are a sad, lonely man with your hand in your pocket as you tell stories about 'your' body and another woman's body.

BIossomtoes · 09/12/2024 09:45

PoliteLion · 09/12/2024 07:46

So were you chugging along in the comfort of thinking you're his type and you knew what type of women to watch out for as a threat but now you're seeing him utterly bewitched (pun intended) by a younger AND curvy-skinny AND girly girl type of woman, all things you cannot compete with. Sometimes people get so sick by their spouse they want an affair or the next relationship with someone utterly different but most often as we've been saying is that a person can fancy many types at the same time or at different life stages.
He pulled back and so did she when you mentioned his behaviour that's a good sign that he cares about his marriage and work. As I said, I'm surprised you've only just noticed your husband a. Eye up another woman and b. Fancy other types.

In thr mid of this don't forget that you also look good and by the sound of it have a few quid so if this marriage ends it's not like you've no options.

With Lara she might be going along for the sake of her career while utterly creeped or not but even if she was manipulating and charming him the onus is on him to be professional and protect his reputation and marriage. There will always be flirty women with loose morals and a thing for rich older men, he has to be the one blocking these attempts because you can't prevent him for cheating if he wants to he will always find a way.

God almighty, the misogyny never ends. There will always be flirty women with loose morals and a thing for rich older men. Bloody hell.

ThatTealViewer · 09/12/2024 09:46

kinsey681 · 09/12/2024 00:35

I'm not here to get a rise out of people. I'm not that bored. I came on here to vent as I didn't want to discuss this with any friends or family in real life.

If it’s not, please seek professional help, OP.

GridlockonMain · 09/12/2024 10:15

kinsey681 · 08/12/2024 19:11

Why do so many people on this thread think that what my DH said to this girl, about the tininess of her dress and telling her not to spill anything on her dress every time he's in the office, is harassment then?

Because he shouldn’t be commenting on her body at all. He’s her boss. There is a massive power imbalance. She can’t say to him ‘please stop commenting on my body, it really creeps me out’, or just walk away from him, without risking her career. Any comment about her body, or the fit of her clothes, is totally inappropriate in these circumstances.

I think you also need to face up to the serious chasm in your logic, where you have noticed and been upset by your husband’s comments towards this woman and the way in which he stares at her with ‘his eyes on stalks’, and yet you still adamantly insist that the behaviour isn’t harassment or problematic. It upsets you because you recognise the element of sexual interest in it. It is therefore inappropriate, and a form of workplace harassment.

ItGhoul · 09/12/2024 10:31

I can't believe your issue here is 'young women can make false allegations' when your husband is making comments like 'that's tiny, how did you fit into that' about an employee's dress.

If she made an allegation of sexual harassment, it would not be false. It would be entirely true.

Your husband isn't awkward and eccentric. He's a creepy lech.

HoppingPavlova · 09/12/2024 10:50

Why do so many people on this thread think that what my DH said to this girl, about the tininess of her dress and telling her not to spill anything on her dress every time he's in the office, is harassment then?

OP, this is easy. Let’s say Lara has a young counterpart on the same level named Liam. If your DH stared at Liam, told Liam his pants are really tiny and he doesn’t know how he slips into them and not to spill anything on his pants every time he’s in the office, then yes, this would be seen as (very odd) harassing behaviour. However, you feel that as it’s said to Lara it’s not harassment? Of course it is. Lara would not be making a false allegation if she called this out, and nor would Liam be if he called this out.

I take it, your DH is not also harassing young men in the workplace, only Lara? That’s because he knows it’s inappropriate and that’s why he would never say these exact same things to a guy. In fact, I doubt he’d be worried about a 50yo woman spilling coffee on herself either. Does he express this concern about beverages and small dresses to older women at work? Or just Lara? While you carry on with a weird snake dance around him …. And you can’t see how this is harassment (by the pair of you actually)? Or you can, but because it’s only 20mins every second week it’s okay and so why should Lara make a fuss?

I also wouldn’t make assumptions about women in their 50’s being confused by these concepts. I’m older than that that and it’s not confusing, it’s all very simple.

andthat · 10/12/2024 10:16

kinsey681 · 08/12/2024 19:14

No, he shouldn't be saying it I agree. But is it a sexual comment?

Assuming he is heterosexual, does he make similar comments to men?

kinsey681 · 10/12/2024 22:14

@PoliteLion

So were you chugging along in the comfort of thinking you're his type and you knew what type of women to watch out for as a threat but now you're seeing him utterly bewitched (pun intended) by a younger AND curvy-skinny AND girly girl type of woman, all things you cannot compete with.

In thr mid of this don't forget that you also look good and by the sound of it have a few quid so if this marriage ends it's not like you've no options.

I think this is the crux of it for me, and there's also a part of me wondering whether he has always preferred the doe-eyed curvy-skinny type of woman, but he ended up with me, as we met through shared interests. He's always been a tad eccentric, bumbling and not the type who could successfully chat up lots of women. They'd likely laugh at him and think, 'who's this oddball?' I'm also a bit offbeat myself, which is probably why DH and I got along all those years ago.

As for him cheating, I seriously doubt he'd throw away 25 years of marriage for a quickie with a younger woman, no matter how much he might fancy her. He only sees her once every few months, and I see his phone....I know men can find ways to cheat, but I haven't seen any signs.

OP posts:
kinsey681 · 10/12/2024 22:15

andthat · 10/12/2024 10:16

Assuming he is heterosexual, does he make similar comments to men?

No, of course not. I know his comments on Lara's dress were maybe flirty, but I didn't see them as overtly sexual. I suppose, as everyone on here is saying, they are sexual in an indirect way.

OP posts:
LaineyCee · 10/12/2024 22:26

The poor woman! It’s completely unacceptable that she’s having to put up with your husband leching at her like this.

HoppingPavlova · 11/12/2024 03:11

No, of course not. I know his comments on Lara's dress were maybe flirty, but I didn't see them as overtly sexual. I suppose, as everyone on here is saying, they are sexual in an indirect way

This is so easy and I just can’t understand why you don’t compute it. If he wouldn’t make that exact same comment to a man then it is indeed overtly sexual. There is no ‘just flirty’ about it. If he wouldn’t make a ‘just flirty’ comment to a man then that ‘just flirty’ comment is overtly sexual. There is nothing hard about this.

Galdownunder · 11/12/2024 06:40

Mate he’d knock her off any chance he got. He’s got the burning hots for her and can’t hide it - even with his wife right next to him! You’re mad for putting up with this creepo.

Renamedyetagain · 11/12/2024 06:50

Cringing over you touching him to "lay claim" in front of her 😳 i bet she's thinking "he's all yours, mate."

Worked in countless temp jobs when studying. It got so fucking wearing dealing with middle class men of a certain age, yes usually dull, egotistical, balding dickheads like Greg Wallace.

She will be so wise to it and feel very relieved it's stopped. And feel bad for you.

Many, many of us have been there. Please try and listen to women.

kinsey681 · 11/12/2024 19:10

Galdownunder · 11/12/2024 06:40

Mate he’d knock her off any chance he got. He’s got the burning hots for her and can’t hide it - even with his wife right next to him! You’re mad for putting up with this creepo.

Edited

We’ve been married almost 26 years and there’s never been any sneakiness from him. He doesn’t love or care about this younger woman, he’s just mooning over her and it’s irritating. He actually hasn’t had the chance to see her for a few months

OP posts:
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