AIBU: trying to balance needs of social group with needs of person living with cancer?

[purplevipersgrass]

Over lockdown I got involved with a random friends-of-friends women's social group that met on line most days to help keep the spirits of those living alone up. We ended up with a really nice group and after Covid we had a number of get-togethers, one in the summer and one pre-Christmas. Last year and again this year we have an exclusive booking with a restaurant and all those coming pay a £20 deposit in advance. I'm the main organiser.

Last year, before our Christmas's event, one of the central figures, Jenny, was diagnosed with cancer and secondaries and started chemo. She wanted to come to the event, but asked that everyone take a Covid test before attending. Fortunately only a couple of people dropped out as a result and we had a good evening. Jenny signed up and paid her £20 for this Christmas, too. The event was held last night and we had 44 women booked to attend, all of whom had paid £20.

On Friday morning Jenny sent an urgent message to everyone on WA, asking us all to take a Covid test yesterday a few hours before arriving. She also asked anyone showing any sign of a cold or infection, or living with someone who had a cold or an infection, to stay at home, as she's immune-suppressed. Probably a dozen women contacted me to say that they always have a runny nose/ sinus problems at this time of year and they don't think it's catching but who knows... Some of them must have contacted Jenny directly, because she sent out a message saying she couldn't deal with people individually but she'd be grateful if anyone who had anything that she could catch, or was living in close proximity to anyone who wasn't well, would stay away, as it was likely to be her last chance to celebrate with us.

So last night, instead of 44 of us gathering in a restaurant that can seat 50, only 29 turned up. Most of those who cancelled said the same thing: they didn't think they were infectious but they weren't 100% and so to be on the safe side they dropped out. Which would have been fine, except that then Jenny didn't turn up. About an hour after the arrive-by time I phoned her and her partner answered her phone and said she'd gone to bed.

Our contract with the restaurant was that 44 of us would attend and have a meal, with a total anticipated expenditure of £2500+. In the end, our bill came to around £1900. The proprietor was polite but firm that he couldn't be expected to return the £260 that had been paid as a deposit by those who hadn't turned up. He pointed out that initially he'd expected the restaurant to be almost filled by our party and so he'd offered the private booking and turned other bookings away. I've had a couple of people who dropped out in case they were brewing a cold contact me today to ask if they'll get their deposit back, and they're okay about it, but there are others who I'm expecting to be annoyed.

Those who came last night really enjoyed themselves and want to do it again next year. Should we find ourselves in this situation next year, would IBU to say that if Jenny is still immune-suppressed, we organise a separate, lower-cost event centred on her and have the dinner event open to all, whether they're slightly sniffy or not? I can see that that might leave her feeling excluded but I can't think of another alternative.

This breaks my heart. I hope your boy will overcome this horrible illness and have many happy decades ahead of him.

The arrogance of YOU, thinking you get to query what opinions people have on this forum, writing a long post with irrelevant 'logic', about viewpoints and factual information, and a load of other drivel - honestly, get over yourself.
Very laughable.

Eh? Why are you attacking a poster who simply didn't agree with you and explained why? That's how a discussion works.

Oh dear - Jenny just can’t come to big group events anymore. Her needs / desires are not compatible with big group events . No one tests for Covid any more and she can’t ask people to do so. Anyone really sick should not come ( but that’s standard) .
You don’t need to say anything now as she is really unwell.
Next time there is an event I would gently tell Jenny what happened this time . Hopefully she will bow out but if not you need to suggest that she does .

I feel for Jenny but the right option for her would have been to sit this one out, not tell others not to come. It was also wrong for her to raise all this so soon before the day of the event. Presumably her not coming herself was unavoidable as she must have felt too unwell but that just highlights how wrong it was for her to have tried to dictate who could come.

In future, a better approach might be for her to plan something smaller with a few friends instead of trying to control the larger event.

I think she is being unreasonable not turning up
I ask that people test for Covid and avoid me if obviously unwell but sinus issues etc.. you can't avoid those
For me it's balancing it as I'm lifelong immunosuppressed

@Georgyporky @EmotionalSupportPotato there was no refund possible. OP would have to pay it out of her own pocket, as the venue had a minimum spend policy to secure the booking for the group only. As it was, there was a shortfall in what was actually spent vs the minimum, because so few people ended up going due to the lateness of Jenny’s request re tests and their concerns they could infect her.

But, realistically, if Jenny had messaged ten minutes before the restaurant booking to say she couldn’t come, how many of the people who’d dropped out because they had a cold would have actually shown up, if they’d been at home in their pyjamas without childcare etc?

It sounds to me as if getting a group of nearly 50 people together in a restaurant that you book out via deposits in advance etc is too unwieldy and problematic when it involves a seriously ill, immune-compromised member. From what you say, that restaurant is unlikely to want you back next year because you underspent, so I think it’s time to make different arrangements to socialise with these people.

I think under the circumstances your friends are wonderful for putting Jenny's needs first so uncomplainingly. Whilst tired and knackered Jenny was a bit of a dick for not notifying you and the group she'd dropped out. Many of those who dropped out might have scrambled to come at the last minute and still got to enjoy their Christmas meal out. I'd have been gutted if I found out I could have gone after all.

I finished chemo a few months ago and am immunocompromised and I think Jenny sounds like a selfish idiot. I wouldn’t dream of asking for people to take Covid tests, she clearly thinks the whole world revolves around her.

My DD is immunocompromised but lives in halls at uni - in fact one mum I know who had advanced lung cancer came to our school for all the usual things. I don't j understand what this woman is so afraid of? If she is that poorly she cannot attend - I'd ask her next time is it fair for X amount if people to miss out just so she can go?

I would be livid with Jenny and would be telling her so. Selfish cow.

Jenny has been completely unreasonable through the whole affair.
With a group of 50 other women there's bound to be others with health issues, possibly even others who are immunosuppressed (for arthritis or autoimmune disease)

This is going to sound wrong but I can't think of a better way to put it....Jenny has cancer so has the sympathy of the whole group, and now is drawing more attention to her condition by ordering people to do such an unreasonable thing.

As someone who is immunosuppressed it's up to me to keep myself healthy and away from bugs, cold etc. It's not for other people to protect me.
Staff at a restaurant can't, large groups of friends can't. Yes a friend will cancel if their child has a stomach bug...but it should be up to Jenny to decide which level of socialising she is happy with. Without encroaching on others.

I'll give her a pass on cancelling last minute as I can see why she has had to do that. But ordering friends to stay away was completely unreasonable

I think close friends would always make allowances for someone going through chemotherapy. But these aren't close friends are they? It's a women's group. And each of them will be living with their own stresses. Some may not have £20 to lose. Others may not have other social events they can attend. So I think its grossly unreasonable for any one individual to expect the entire group to accommodate them. If you're 1 of 44 then realistically it should be you who sits it out, not 13 other people.

That she didn't even let you know she wasn't coming is incredibly rude. I understand she's unwell and tired but it takes a few seconds to send a text. I really dislike when people mask poor behaviour behind an illness and find it quite manipulative.

I agree, Jenny is being unreasonable in these circumstances.

But - the post-covid world is terrifying for many of us who are immune supressed. We are all different, but my type of cancer makes me very vulnerable to respiratory and sinus infections.

I'm taking a train journey this week (carer duties) and I am hesitant about it. I'll wear a mask, but of course the train will be full of people hacking and coughing.

I actually felt safer during covid when everyone was masked.

This is crazy, if your friend feels vulnerable out on groups then she needs to adapt and adjust. She could arrange an evening with a handful of people and then dictate the covid testing requirements.

For so many to drop out is sad and unnecessary. As you say they could very well have their own problems and socialising may have been important to them.

Many of us have or have had cancer, many of us have illnesses. We don't get to tell people to stay away from events to accommodate us.

It's not ableist.

If I have a migraine, I don't text everyone and tell them to ge quiet on our night out. I don't expect the restaurant to turn off the speakers and shut the blinds so the room is dark. I don't go to restaurant where they play loud music.

If she is immunosuppressed, she wouldn't ask the uber driver if he has a cold not to take the job, wpuldnt ask everyone on the bus whether they had sniffles, everyone on the train? Every bus boy, waitress, or other patron of the restaurant? Have you a cold? can you stay away from me, I'm immunosuppressed. No, that's not happening.

I'm not saying that the place needs to get rid of the wheelchair access. I'm saying an immunosuppressed person is responsible for their own health. You're not responsible for the stranger on a trains health. They are.

Kind of agree with this, sorry as I am for Jenny.

That she didn't even let you know she wasn't coming is incredibly rude. I understand she's unwell and tired but it takes a few seconds to send a text. I really dislike when people mask poor behaviour behind an illness and find it quite manipulative.

I had a short conversation with Jenny last night. She explained that after getting ready to come out she felt exhausted and decided to lie down for half an hour in the hope of feeling better. She asked her husband to wake her in time for the taxi which was booked to take her to the venue. He tried to wake her but she was so deeply asleep that he decided to let her get the rest she needed. My number was on her phone and as her phone has faceID set up he couldn't send me a message. She's mortified: I think she realises how off it seems.

A taxi was booked? Why didn't her dh plan to take her the driver may have had a cough.
Seriously I am sorry for her and her predicament but don't let her dictate who can attend like this at your next event.

But even if Jenny had been able to attend, the people who weren't there would have lost their deposits.

OP you sound like a really kind, thoughtful and tactful person who's hopping around in a minefield through no fault of your own.
I'm sorry you're in this situation and hope that the majority of the non-attendees will sympathise and not expect to be refunded.
Even the really skint ones will have saved a few bob by pulling out of the meal so they're better off, at least financially, than they would have been.

It's been very helpful hearing from other immune-compromised people how they deal with social situations. I thank all those who've been in a similar situation for their thoughts. Not an easy situation for anyone.

This is a very interesting - and honest - post.

@toomuchfaff but you don't have a migraine for your whole life so that's not really the same

I do my best but sometimes I need a little help from friends otherwise it just means I don't go out