AIBU: trying to balance needs of social group with needs of person living with cancer?

[purplevipersgrass]

Over lockdown I got involved with a random friends-of-friends women's social group that met on line most days to help keep the spirits of those living alone up. We ended up with a really nice group and after Covid we had a number of get-togethers, one in the summer and one pre-Christmas. Last year and again this year we have an exclusive booking with a restaurant and all those coming pay a £20 deposit in advance. I'm the main organiser.

Last year, before our Christmas's event, one of the central figures, Jenny, was diagnosed with cancer and secondaries and started chemo. She wanted to come to the event, but asked that everyone take a Covid test before attending. Fortunately only a couple of people dropped out as a result and we had a good evening. Jenny signed up and paid her £20 for this Christmas, too. The event was held last night and we had 44 women booked to attend, all of whom had paid £20.

On Friday morning Jenny sent an urgent message to everyone on WA, asking us all to take a Covid test yesterday a few hours before arriving. She also asked anyone showing any sign of a cold or infection, or living with someone who had a cold or an infection, to stay at home, as she's immune-suppressed. Probably a dozen women contacted me to say that they always have a runny nose/ sinus problems at this time of year and they don't think it's catching but who knows... Some of them must have contacted Jenny directly, because she sent out a message saying she couldn't deal with people individually but she'd be grateful if anyone who had anything that she could catch, or was living in close proximity to anyone who wasn't well, would stay away, as it was likely to be her last chance to celebrate with us.

So last night, instead of 44 of us gathering in a restaurant that can seat 50, only 29 turned up. Most of those who cancelled said the same thing: they didn't think they were infectious but they weren't 100% and so to be on the safe side they dropped out. Which would have been fine, except that then Jenny didn't turn up. About an hour after the arrive-by time I phoned her and her partner answered her phone and said she'd gone to bed.

Our contract with the restaurant was that 44 of us would attend and have a meal, with a total anticipated expenditure of £2500+. In the end, our bill came to around £1900. The proprietor was polite but firm that he couldn't be expected to return the £260 that had been paid as a deposit by those who hadn't turned up. He pointed out that initially he'd expected the restaurant to be almost filled by our party and so he'd offered the private booking and turned other bookings away. I've had a couple of people who dropped out in case they were brewing a cold contact me today to ask if they'll get their deposit back, and they're okay about it, but there are others who I'm expecting to be annoyed.

Those who came last night really enjoyed themselves and want to do it again next year. Should we find ourselves in this situation next year, would IBU to say that if Jenny is still immune-suppressed, we organise a separate, lower-cost event centred on her and have the dinner event open to all, whether they're slightly sniffy or not? I can see that that might leave her feeling excluded but I can't think of another alternative.

Masks were just a 'performative" load of rubbish during covid. A grubby piece of material or a silly bit of blue folded paper that's been in and out of your bag and pocket 6 times protects you and other people against absolutely nothing. Particularly if,in the case of Ops event, people are in a big group and projecting their voices( spitting tiny particulates at each other) towards each other.
I look after my grandsons every Monday. One is 2.5 years old and at nursery for 2 days a week . The other is 10months old and has had a snotty nose since September. Sometimes we are affected by the germs they inevitably bring each week, sometimes we are fine for weeks. It's a lottery. If Jane's request applied to me I would never be able to attend anything she (and the rest of the friendship group) was at.

No it is not. Of course jenny can attend group events, what she can't do is dictate the day before that anyone with a sniffle is no allowed to go or emotio ally blackmail people not to go esp when deposits have been already paid.

If she wanted to do that she should have made it clear at the time of booking. Cancer sucks buy its up to her to protect her health. What is servers had stinking colds?

Sorry Jenny was completely unreasonable end of.

I am gobsmacked at Jennys entitlement.
I cannot imagine a single person I know in such a position behaving like that with a pre organised very large booking.

You are a tolerant person.
I think Jenny was spectacularly selfish in her request and unbelievable rude to then just not turn up.

What planet do people like that reside on?
Certainly not one that I have met anyone from.

She should have declined to go and let that be the end of it.

I’m having chemo and I’m not well most of the time, on the days that I am I meet friends , go to the theatre infact, it doesn't stop me from doing anything or cross my mind to dictate to anyone whether they come or not. I trust they will use common sense. If I feel rubbish my friends know I might cancel but always in good time. Your friend was in the wrong she would’ve known she felt rubbish during the day and only had to send a WhatsApp. I’ll be surprised if half the people want to go next year.

on another note, how many people on here have replied to say they have cancer??? Honestly it’s crazy I don’t know if it’s just me or not but it seems to be everywhere at the moment.

If someone can't afford to lose £20 deposit, they couldn't afford the evening out.
I do understand Jennys actions were annoying, but if I were one of the party, that stayed away, overall I'd still reflect that I'm able to attend again another time, whilst my terminally ill friend is not.

And I repeat that I think that's a simplistic black and white response that refuses to recognise the complexity of the situation.

Perhaps it's mainly people who have cancer who feel that they're qualified to respond?

Don't you dare. Refer them to Jenny

Fair enough for her to suggest anyone contagious doesn't attend.

I'd agree IF this had been specified/requested before anyone put a deposit down to attend the event, not last minute.

Expecting anyone who has a slight sniffle in December to lose money (not to mention a meal out they were looking forward to) or feel guilty that they might kill off a friend is a bit harsh. I thought the deposit was only going to be about a fiver but £20 is A LOT for many people this time of year. I can absolutely understand why some might be annoyed at not getting it back (but more so missing out) when they felt fine to come and only didn't to be fair to Jenny. You don't know what's going on in everyone else's life - yes Jenny might have it 'worst' but chances are out of 50 women there are a number suffering with depression/from DV/with other chronic or serious illnesses who were really looking forward to that night out. Not to mention the poor restaurant owner who lost out £600 - that's could be their months mortgage.

Jenny then not turning up is adding fuel to the fire. Very understandable that she might suddenly have felt too unwell to come, but incredibly rude to have not even spent 30 seconds to bother to text you (or asked her partner to contact you) to tell you. Cancer doesn't mean you suddenly become completely incapable of basic courtesy.

Saying that I wouldn't give any thought now what to do next year if the same thing happens. Firstly because it would be better to give tempers time to die down if people are annoyed, but mainly because from Jenny's comment it sounds like she might not be around (or well enough) to attend anyway, so no point in stressing about it at this stage.

Unless they get hit by a bus tomorrow and die or have a heart attack

Did Jenny consider other people's circumstances? For some of the other attendees, that could be their only outing due financial issues, caring responsibilities etc.

Though it's natural to want to give Jenny some slack this is actually a fair question, and as many have said it's not so much the "feeling too tired to go" which matters as the fact that nobody bothered to let you know

It's a lesson learned though, and in future I'd still book the big group events but also include a few smaller ones which would be more suitable for her

They'd budgeted for the evening out. For one of them it was their one Christmas treat. They were planning to have one course and a soft drink to keep their bill low. They lost their evening out and their £20. A double blow.

It sounds like the deposit was only about a fiver, which isn't too bad

No, the deposit was £20 per head. I think I made that clear.

I actually feel very sorry for Jenny but think the last paragraph of this is true. I have pre-school children in nursery and am a primary teacher - if I didn't go out when I could be carrying cold symptoms I would never go anywhere for much of the year. Perhaps it's straightforward if you are not around small children and WFH but I feel I could potentially be infectious (before symptoms have shown) much of the time. I just don't know.

My thoughts exactly. I'm sorry for her of course, but why on earth didn't she ring you or ask her DH to let you all know she wasn't coming so all those others could!

what on earth? how can you justify that ridiculous statement?

The anticipated spend was £2500. Between the 50 expected that would equate to £50per head, but some would have spent more (4 courses and cocktails), and some less (2 courses and drank water). Realistically, those who can't afford to lose the deposit would be more likely to be in the second group.

Throwing £20 away on absolutely nothing is in no way comparable to spending £35 (or whatever) for a nice meal and an evening with your friends.

by that "logic" if you can afford to buy something for £20 you can afford to buy it for £40.
If you can afford to spend £100 on a handbag you can afford to spend £1000....

Are you really suggesting that unless you're so rich you don't notice the loss of £20 you don't deserve to ever leave the house? Middle class MN arrogance at its finest....

I think if you go out to events at this time of year, there is a risk you will get sick. I went to an event recently and got Covid, it's everywhere and the current version of Covid doesn't test positive anyway for several days- I tested positive only on Day 5 and I had assumed I didn't have it as my original tests were negative.

It is not at all realistic to expect 44 people in winter to be cold free, sniffle free, not have families with colds or flu or Covid, plus waiting staff which will be several people for a whole restaurant.

It's a shame but it is not realistic.

Having a small event, just with three or four key friends, say round at someone's house might be more doable. Even then though, most viruses are their most virulent in the first day or two when they are not symptomatic or only just.

If there was a direct relationship between infection and symptoms, it would be easier, but now I know how sneaky Covid is, I think that going into large gatherings or trains or even into hospital is definitely to avoid if you can help it. One of my dd's got Covid from a hospital ward and was sick for months afterwards.

It's a nightmare, and other people aren't going to wear masks at a pre-Christmas do, and even if they did, that wouldn't necessarily protect her- you can 'kit' up with a mask, an air-purifier, sit outside, test everyone at a small gathering, but beyond that it is still fairly uncontrollable.

This is the kind of thing I meant in saying that the question about Jenny considering others was fair; dreadfully sad as it is, I wonder if her condition really would prevent her (or even her OH) spending 30 seconds to text

I honestly don't think it should be down to you to return refunds though OP, tempting as it is

Jenny was out of order - she can't expect to dictate to everyone. And then to just not turn up, that's just rude.

My lovely dad died of cancer - but it didn't turn him into an entitled person

Yeah I amended my comment after. I initially read it as though the £260 was the whole deposit not just the difference. At least that was less of a gap for the restaurant owner to find.

I agree.

in future I'd still book the big group events but also include a few smaller ones which would be more suitable for her

Great, more thankless work for the organiser. No good deed goes unpunished.

You're not wrong, BlushingBrightly, but surely with so large a group folk could take turns so it wouldn't all have to be down to OP?

Jenny might have cancer but that doesn't excuse her for being thoughtless and selfish. If she knew she needed to go to bed instead of going to the event she should have told someone so any former dropouts could potentially still attend.