AIBU: trying to balance needs of social group with needs of person living with cancer?

[purplevipersgrass]

Over lockdown I got involved with a random friends-of-friends women's social group that met on line most days to help keep the spirits of those living alone up. We ended up with a really nice group and after Covid we had a number of get-togethers, one in the summer and one pre-Christmas. Last year and again this year we have an exclusive booking with a restaurant and all those coming pay a £20 deposit in advance. I'm the main organiser.

Last year, before our Christmas's event, one of the central figures, Jenny, was diagnosed with cancer and secondaries and started chemo. She wanted to come to the event, but asked that everyone take a Covid test before attending. Fortunately only a couple of people dropped out as a result and we had a good evening. Jenny signed up and paid her £20 for this Christmas, too. The event was held last night and we had 44 women booked to attend, all of whom had paid £20.

On Friday morning Jenny sent an urgent message to everyone on WA, asking us all to take a Covid test yesterday a few hours before arriving. She also asked anyone showing any sign of a cold or infection, or living with someone who had a cold or an infection, to stay at home, as she's immune-suppressed. Probably a dozen women contacted me to say that they always have a runny nose/ sinus problems at this time of year and they don't think it's catching but who knows... Some of them must have contacted Jenny directly, because she sent out a message saying she couldn't deal with people individually but she'd be grateful if anyone who had anything that she could catch, or was living in close proximity to anyone who wasn't well, would stay away, as it was likely to be her last chance to celebrate with us.

So last night, instead of 44 of us gathering in a restaurant that can seat 50, only 29 turned up. Most of those who cancelled said the same thing: they didn't think they were infectious but they weren't 100% and so to be on the safe side they dropped out. Which would have been fine, except that then Jenny didn't turn up. About an hour after the arrive-by time I phoned her and her partner answered her phone and said she'd gone to bed.

Our contract with the restaurant was that 44 of us would attend and have a meal, with a total anticipated expenditure of £2500+. In the end, our bill came to around £1900. The proprietor was polite but firm that he couldn't be expected to return the £260 that had been paid as a deposit by those who hadn't turned up. He pointed out that initially he'd expected the restaurant to be almost filled by our party and so he'd offered the private booking and turned other bookings away. I've had a couple of people who dropped out in case they were brewing a cold contact me today to ask if they'll get their deposit back, and they're okay about it, but there are others who I'm expecting to be annoyed.

Those who came last night really enjoyed themselves and want to do it again next year. Should we find ourselves in this situation next year, would IBU to say that if Jenny is still immune-suppressed, we organise a separate, lower-cost event centred on her and have the dinner event open to all, whether they're slightly sniffy or not? I can see that that might leave her feeling excluded but I can't think of another alternative.

I'm a bit speechless at Jenny behaviour. She wiped out loads of people attending with an unreasonable request literally the day before

Next year I would get everyone to pay the full amount for the meal in advance. I'd also warn Jenny that she can't dictate who can attend for this Xmas meal.

Fair enough for her to suggest anyone contagious doesn't attend - that's friendship 101 when someone's going through chemo, it means a friend might miss one event but otherwise Jenny would have to miss everything. Anyone being an asshole about it was unreasonable.

Jenny was really really out of line not to say she wasn't coming. Given the extent of her illness I'd cut her some slack though.

I have cancer and I am immune supressed. Whilst I understand Jenny's worry, I think she's being a tad unreasonable.

It's tricky, though. People were very quick to drop the masks 'after' covid and many have forgotten or no longer choose to protect others.

So, for someone in this situation, social events are frightening.

This said, that's not the exact case here, and I certainly wouldn't be asking people to take covid tests, etc., that's unreasonable.

But, please, everyone, don't forget that many of us are still at risk.

The restaurant staff didn't take covid tests did they?

I think the gentle approach would be to not raise what happened with her. But if she asks, for example how many didn't go, I'd tell her. Did they lose their deposits? Yes they did.
I would not change the plan next year, everyone enjoys their nice night out. Tell Jenny that you're booking but point out that she can't really do what she did this time, and it isn't logical given that the restaurant staff won't have to take tests or consider whether they have a cold brewing. Then leave it to her if she still wants to come.

Which would have been fine, except that then Jenny didn't turn up.

Then she refunds all the deposits of those who didn't go and stated before hand that it was because of her

Nailed it.

Honestly - just don’t invite her next year. I have cancer and wouldn’t dream of asking others not to attend. I would try and avoid sitting next to or opposite someone who had a cold but It wouldn’t even cross my mind to ask people not to go.

I’m going through cancer treatment at the moment, so I feel for Jenny and the need to keep going to things for the normality. But for a big event like that it would be better for her to sit out, and maybe she has a much smaller get together with some of the close friends from the group who test etc

What's Jenny like in other situations? On the face of it, she's been very unreasonable, both to communicate her needs so last minute, and then to drop out without letting anyone know. But I don't know how unpredictable her treatment schedule and symptoms are.

I think your suggestion is reasonable. Before the next big group event, I'd ask the most tactful group member to sit down with her and try to work out the best solution that's workable for all parties.

I’m also going through chemo and have dipped out of larger group and indoor events for the time being. I get together with a smaller group of friends at home or in heated outdoor socialising areas. I do ask if they’re poorly/ snotty for us to reschedule.

The suggestion of a separate smaller event sounds wise. It was very unreasonable of J not to turn up with no forewarning. Cancer is bloody hard but I celebrate that life goes on and that my friends work for things to be right for us all to get together when we can.

Maybe she could have had a smaller table with a group of people who had been tested. Then just 👋 to the rest from a distance.
I understand the need for normality or a change of scene for a cancer sufferer.

Shame she didn't turn up. But could she have taken a serious turn for the worse?

Jenny is immunosuppressed, therefore it's her that shouldn't attend. Harsh but realistic.

Wow, so many responses. Thank you. I've heard from Jenny: she said she had wanted to come but the process of getting ready to come out wore her out and all she could do was go to bed. Apparently she'd had some new treatment early in the week and it was taking its toll. I'm trying not to wonder why she didn't call me yesterday before going to bed, or think a bit more carefully about this in advance. I do understand the desire to keep going and keep attending for as long as possible.

Maybe we'll organise a small gathering for her in the new year. It's hard to plan, particularly if people are coming from a distance, if there's a high likelihood of things having to be cancelled at zero notice.

But if Jenny felt she was especially vulnerable inmthe hours leading up to the event, then surely she should have given her apologies and not attended. Instead she expected everyone else with a slight sniffle or people living with someone with a sniffle not to attend.

No matter what Jenny is going through, knowing that that the restaurant is booked for just their party, knowing that restaurants often won't refund deposits, and then not telling the organiser that she can't attend at the last minute, or getting her husband to do it is cheekiness of the highest order. Jenny has been plain rude. Having cancer is not an excuse. She should be told what she did was out of order. There is being accomodating and then there is being taken for a ride.

So, next time OP, organise events, but it should be up to Jenny to decide whether she wants to attend or not, not for others to exclude themselves from an important event for such a mannerless, selfish person, using their cancer diagnosis to manipulate others.

And OP, don't organise another event in the new year for her. If she wants one she should arrange it herself. Harsh I know, but otherwise she will contnue to think that her illness entitles her to treat people badly.

I think she’s blown it a bit here to be honest.

I think she needs to realise that her health isn't compatible with big gatherings like this just now and instead of a repeat of what just happened, she needs to maybe focus on much smaller gatherings where it's more manageable to control whether people have coughs/colds and where it's not as expensive if she has to pull out.

I agree, but surely given her circumstances she can be shown some grace rather than criticised.

There's a lot of people talking confidently on this thread about next year. With multiple secondaries that's very very far from a guarantee and she'll be more aware of that than anything.

Yes, she's been terribly behaved here. She could have texted or got her partner to text at the very very least. Did she even apologise? It feels a bit like she was disrupting things to feed off that in some way. I get that someone undergoing cancer treatment might feel so powerless that they look for other ways to exert control in life. But it's still not on.

And I don't want to say she's being unreasonable as it sounds like she is terminally ill and believed that it might have been her last chance to attend something with you all, and god knows that's an awful position to be in, so I would absolutely cut her slack. I think she's just failed to grasp the effect on other people and also her own ability to attend things, perhaps hoping against better judgement she would be able to join in. But it is totally reasonable for you to do something that works for the majority and arrange something smaller with her.

I think Jenny is being really unreasonable here. I would let her know how many people dropped out and what the restaurant did/said about the deposits.

Jenny has, by her own actions, made it hard for people to do this. If she is not alive to attend - or not - next year, this is what people will remember. And it was avoidable.

That's very ableist though.

I wouldn't commit to that if I were one of the people who pulled out and now lost my deposit because of her.

Cancer is unpredictable. Especially going through chemo, one minute you are fine and the next you aren’t. I’d give her some grace considering what she’s going through.

My 8 year old son has recently gone through cancer treatment. At the Christmas market the other day, he said to me “‘mummy, I feel like a normal boy again”. He missed out on so much during treatment, so very much.