AIBU: trying to balance needs of social group with needs of person living with cancer?

[purplevipersgrass]

Over lockdown I got involved with a random friends-of-friends women's social group that met on line most days to help keep the spirits of those living alone up. We ended up with a really nice group and after Covid we had a number of get-togethers, one in the summer and one pre-Christmas. Last year and again this year we have an exclusive booking with a restaurant and all those coming pay a £20 deposit in advance. I'm the main organiser.

Last year, before our Christmas's event, one of the central figures, Jenny, was diagnosed with cancer and secondaries and started chemo. She wanted to come to the event, but asked that everyone take a Covid test before attending. Fortunately only a couple of people dropped out as a result and we had a good evening. Jenny signed up and paid her £20 for this Christmas, too. The event was held last night and we had 44 women booked to attend, all of whom had paid £20.

On Friday morning Jenny sent an urgent message to everyone on WA, asking us all to take a Covid test yesterday a few hours before arriving. She also asked anyone showing any sign of a cold or infection, or living with someone who had a cold or an infection, to stay at home, as she's immune-suppressed. Probably a dozen women contacted me to say that they always have a runny nose/ sinus problems at this time of year and they don't think it's catching but who knows... Some of them must have contacted Jenny directly, because she sent out a message saying she couldn't deal with people individually but she'd be grateful if anyone who had anything that she could catch, or was living in close proximity to anyone who wasn't well, would stay away, as it was likely to be her last chance to celebrate with us.

So last night, instead of 44 of us gathering in a restaurant that can seat 50, only 29 turned up. Most of those who cancelled said the same thing: they didn't think they were infectious but they weren't 100% and so to be on the safe side they dropped out. Which would have been fine, except that then Jenny didn't turn up. About an hour after the arrive-by time I phoned her and her partner answered her phone and said she'd gone to bed.

Our contract with the restaurant was that 44 of us would attend and have a meal, with a total anticipated expenditure of £2500+. In the end, our bill came to around £1900. The proprietor was polite but firm that he couldn't be expected to return the £260 that had been paid as a deposit by those who hadn't turned up. He pointed out that initially he'd expected the restaurant to be almost filled by our party and so he'd offered the private booking and turned other bookings away. I've had a couple of people who dropped out in case they were brewing a cold contact me today to ask if they'll get their deposit back, and they're okay about it, but there are others who I'm expecting to be annoyed.

Those who came last night really enjoyed themselves and want to do it again next year. Should we find ourselves in this situation next year, would IBU to say that if Jenny is still immune-suppressed, we organise a separate, lower-cost event centred on her and have the dinner event open to all, whether they're slightly sniffy or not? I can see that that might leave her feeling excluded but I can't think of another alternative.

She probably over-estimated how much this would take it out of her and didn't know til the last minute. Not saying it wouldn't have been better to have let everyone know, but she might have been wishing to attend with all her heart and then only realised it wasn't possible at the very last minute. It is sad.

With that many attendees there's a strong chance some of the others had their own shit going on and could also have done with the group support. Especially at this time of year when it can get lonely. Don't assume Jenny is the only one who needed that catch up

I’m well aware that most people are assholes. DH and I live very small lives because we have no choice but to take ridiculous steps to protect ourselves. The tiniest bit of consideration would make the world safer, not safe, but much safer.

I agree with this.

Wow just wow.

Middle class? No. Arrogance? No.
Grew up in poverty, know what it's like to miss out, but as I said, I'd still reflect that I'd be able to attend another time (bar getting hit by a bus or have a MI as per PP). Doesn't mean not letting people know she'd no longer be coming was ok, or that I wouldn't be annoyed - just I have a different view point.

True, they could. There probably is a way to split the load. I'm just a cynic who thinks that everyone here has copped the fallout except for Jenny and that includes OP as the organiser. Then too people have to choose which event to attend or pay to attend multiple times. Organising things like this is so often a thankless task where it's taken for granted when things go well, and the minute there's a problem folk moan at you.

Yes, I think this is true. I looked after my mum, who had cancer, in her final year and one day she was fine and had energy and the next day there was no gas in the tank. I can well believe that putting on some make up and doing and her hair and getting into her glad rags left Jenny exhausted. Which is why I'm really not angry with her, except for not letting us know — though I understand that she didn't make her decision until most of the rest of us were already gathered at the restaurant. I just can't see a solution that will enable her to feel safe enough and won't result in others losing money/ being excluded.

Another with cancer and immune compromised. I was going through chemo last Christmas. I had always had two cycles by December so knew that trying to go anywhere for the first seven to ten days after an infusion was impossible. Had I have been in Jenny's situation, I would have withdrawn long ago or not signed on for the get together.

Am really surprised if Jenny has not had both a covid booster and flu jab. This was mandatory for me when I was going through chemo and again this winter even though I am no longer having this treatment. If I go somewhere crowded, I often wear a mask - the onus is on my to protect myself as best I can, not to expect others to stay away.

I think Jenny is being the unreasonable one, particularly as she didn't bother to turn up. At the very least, she (or her husband) should have let the group know she wasn't attending. By now, she should be well aware of how she'll feel during a chemo cycle, when her better days will be and when she's going to be unwell and/or too tired to do anything. I was also very clear with my friends that their life goes on and not to pander to me/put things off on my account. I always felt the mass were more important rather than my own needs. Cancer and its treatment is unpredictable, so was loathe to commit to anything when I was undergoing both chemo and radiation.

There isn't one. Cancer is shit

I live with an immune suppressed person. My approach is to ask people to let me know if they have any symptoms or concerns they might be coming down with something, like a sore throat or a cold. If they do, then I stay away. I adjust myself.

I guess Jenny might not be around next year, so you won’t have this issue.

life with no immune system and knowing death is very close must be pretty heart breaking.

but I can totally understand how frustrated you are about how the evening turned out.

Thanks for your nuanced view. It goes some way to explaining why the 'ableist' response is so unhelpful. I try to be thoughtful and inclusive, and each time someone lobs the 'ableist' grenade at me as I struggle with balancing rights and needs I move further towards a so-what? reaction. Who's to say that Jenny's needs trump the needs of a couple of other rather vulnerable people who I'd suggest get more benefit from the support the group offers than perhaps she does? She has family and a whole host of friends around her. They are living quite marginal lives. Which is why I will happily give them their £20 back, because I'm fortunate enough to be able to do so.

I've no idea if death is very close. I'm not saying it may not be, but I have other family and friends who have lived with cancer for years. 11 years in the best-case scenario.

Agree 💯

@purplevipersgrass You are very kind. I would be wary of offering to cover deposits. It's possible that word will get round and you will be asked by others and end up refunding a lot. I also think that it would be wrong to do as some posters have suggested, to direct people to Jenny, but I can see you wouldn't do that.

I totally take your point about the marginal people, I particularly appreciate what you say about how much this night out would've meant to them - but I would make sure they don't tell anyone else that you've been kind enough to offer them the deposit. They may not take it anyway though.

I do think Jenny's behaviour in what she asked people was unacceptable. She couldn't know that any serving staff might have an illness. Also, I noticed she asked about people's households. I'm going to guess that there were no nurses or doctors invited to this gathering because they are obviously around sick people at work all the time. It is simply too much to ask. In terms of not turning up, if it came on suddenly, she might have forgotten what she asked because in her mind, it was a reasonable request.

I wouldn't think too much about next year. You may not want to organise a big do next year anyway.

I imagine you want to protect Jenny from being blamed to some extent. I suppose the best thing to do is keep quiet really. I am surprised that there hasn't been a big reaction.

It sounds like a lovely supportive group, btw.

This is so specific as to be very outing, and with 50 of you someone else is likely to be on Mumsnet!

My husband is imunosupressed with copd and bronchiectasis. Our whole social life is one big risk assessment, wether we like it or not, especially over winter.
We take as many precautions as we can to balance a quality of life against risk of serious illness. We have grandchildren who we love, so they take covid tests before we visit.
We expect close friends to avoid us if they're ill, we don't attend big indoor gatherings etc Essentially though you can't dictate who can and can't attend a party. I think Jenny would be better having smaller get togethers in an outdoor setting, it'd be safer and more relaxing.
Luckily for most people they live blissfully unaware of how awful it is to be in this situation, so it's difficult for them to understand. When you're seriously ill, and then it hits you that a run of the mill winter virus could kill you, it's the pits.

You also don't know I'd any of your friends who didn't go are feeling depressed and could have really done with going. I think it's fair enough to ask that if anyone is feeling coldy or tests positive for covid they let Jenny or the group chat know (if it's covid they should probably stay home as it can still be very nasty for people so best to follow nhs advice there). So then Jenny can decide if she wants to go or not. The only difference is if it is specifically for Jenny. Her birthday, a cheer her up coz she's got cancer meal or whatever it which case she is the priority and people have to accept they may have to cancel if they have the slightest illness. For these events try and do them somewhere without a cancellation fee or if they do then get it all agreed and share the load between you all. Perhaps a picnic in the park in the summer?

overall reflecting that you'd be able to attend another time is an opinion, fair enough. That wasn't what I was querying, it was the way you presented "If you can't afford to lose £20 you can't afford to go out" as a factual statement and not a 'viewpoint' that I disagree with. Because it's not logical. One doesn't equal the other. It's perfectly possible to be able to afford to spend x amount on something while noticing the loss of a slightly smaller amount.

Jenny is being a shit bag. If you are putting requirements on other people (particularly when they can't afford to lose a deposit) then tmyou tell them before they pay the deposit. Then you tell them (or get your partner to tell them) if those requirements change. Does she know that her actions caused a high number of people to miss out on their only Xmas night out and lose their deposits? Also unless it was a completely private gathering, it was pointless anyway, unless she got a guarantee from all the restauarant staff that they were completely illness free etc. And what about people who felt well but had covid or any other illness that takes a while to show up like hand foot and mouth or something

I'm going to guess that there were no nurses or doctors invited to this gathering because they are obviously around sick people at work all the time.

Or teachers! The number of children in my school with coughs, colds, vomiting, hand foot and mouth and chicken pox at the moment is unreal!

I don’t see why everyone didn’t take a Covid test on the day, rather than drop out.

Probably because the request covered anything infectious like coughs and colds. Lots of those around.

And anyone who'd been exposed to coughs and colds