to think men shouldn't be midwives

[igglepiggle599]

Just saying, I have nothing against the male midwives themselves. I'm sure they're amazing at what they do and are lovely, kind, caring people. They themselves are not actually the issue I have.

I think many women are uncomfortable with the idea of a male midwife for any number of reasons, and there's a good chance that any given woman will automatically feel uncomfortable when a male midwife walks in. I also find it very disingenuous when people say that they can simply request another midwife. I'm sure that's often true (though maternity units presumable don't have an infinite supply of midwives at any given time, so there's at least a hypothetical scenario in which this wouldn't be possible?). I don't think it's fair that women should be put in a situation where they have to speak up and say that they want a different midwife, particularly when they are extremely vulnerable and possibly in excruciating pain. I'm not a particularly shy or passive person, but I would find that conversation very difficult even when not in labour. I might panic in the moment and wonder whether that amounted to some kind of breach of equality laws, or I might be in such a state that I just didn't want to risk any kind of conflict. Ultimately I would end up with a birth that may well be smooth from a medical point of view but somewhat tainted emotionally, as I would know that an aspect of the situation made me uncomfortable and I hadn't felt able to say anything.

Also, is midwifery even the kind of profession that would actually benefit from gender diversity given that women are the ones who give birth? I'm sure these very talented, compassionate men would be just as valued in a different branch of nursing. Obviously there are male doctors who can end up delivering a baby, but somehow it feels different for men to train in a role that is so intimate.

Very much open to different perspectives.

My midwife needed assistance during my birth and that assistance came from a doctor… a male doctor. No way would I of declined his help because he is male! I’d also be comfortable going to regular appointments with a male midwife

That doesn’t answer my question. I didn’t ask why you were more comfortable with female midwives than male. You’ve explained that.

I’m asking how you know female midwives aren’t looking at you sexually and how you’re comfortable with that lack of knowledge. So, repeating your queries.

I think it very much depends on their reason for going into midwifery.

I have worked with one male midwife who was wonderful, caring, supportive, and empathetic. He went into the profession as he was passionate about it, and it showed in his care.

On the other hand, I trained with a guy who went into it because he saw it as a quick jump to a management position purely because he was male in a female dominated profession. It was also quite obvious he had been given a place on the course because of his sex, as the lecturers were always delighted to highlight his presence. I don't think he ended up qualifying, thankfully.

The role of a midwife is to support women and make them feel safe, if a woman doesn't feel safe/comfortable with her midwife for any reason they should be able to request an alternative. However as the OP highlighted, this puts the onus on the woman and many don't feel comfortable doing so. Additionally, staffing sometimes seriously limits this possibility.

Not in my case. I had my waters broken for me after 2 days of contractions when I begged for an epidural the bitch told me that she managed with just gas and air so didn't think I needed it and to calm down
This was in 2013 btw not the 1940s and she was younger than me too.

I think the complete opposite, I think drawing too much from you own experience during pregnancy and birth could actually be very dangerous.

No. We don't need caucasians adding their diverse viewpoints on African hair or straight people bestowing their hot takes on gay people.

Can someone please explain what the hairy hands thing is all about? ( if it's a reference to being a man, well I have hairs on my hands and im a woman)

Community midwives who do the appointments don't work in delivery where I am, I did see 'my midwife' afterwards at home though. Wouldn't bother me if they were male.

Do you also "suspect" male teachers????

Can't imagine what a horrible mind you must have.

I had a male midwife when ds was born , 16 years ago. I was given the choice, bit I didn't mind. He realised that ds was a back 2 back footling breech. It did t bother me, but I can see why it might upset others.

It's not that she'll think her experiences can be extrapolated to her patients it's that she can empathise better having been through the experience.

Obviously I don't 'know'. I assumed you didn't need your question answering ad littarum as I didn't think you'd believe there was a possibility that I'm a mind reader.

I disagree, men absolutely should be able to train and practice as midwives. And women should be free to request or decline the midwife caring for them, including based on their sex.

I work with an amazing, caring, respectful male midwife who many of the women he cares for sing the praises of. He is very respectful and understanding of the women who decline his care, the absolute embodiment of a midwife.

Also, side point, midwifery isn't a branch of nursing, it's its own distinct profession.

I put in my notes I didn’t want a male midwife. I’m not in the slightest concerned about privacy of them seeing me intimately (I had numerous male OBGYN consultants etc anyway) but midwifery is one of the few (only?) disiplines in the nhs/ medicine where women dominate positions of power and so I want to do my little bit to support them retaining that 😃

Not sure what you're getting at here. I was referring to the specific example of male perspectives in midwifery.

LOL! Peak Mumsnet answer!

I have worked a lot with midwives as an adjacent health professional and can confirm they eat their young. They were the most toxic department in several hospitals. They bullied the junior female doctors consistently.

For that basis alone I would encourage a bit of diversity with regards to the sex of the clinician.

Males don't get pregnant. Their diverse viewpoints are not needed.

Hugely agree with this. Where there have been maternity scandals, it’s often been driven by an obsession with “natural birth” and I do believe a lot of that comes from a cultish view of “I did it, you can do it too.”

I never had a relationship with a midwife and my DC are 29 and 26 and born in what were supposed to be halcyon days.

When DS1 was born, I saw 37 health professionals between 12 weeks and 12 days post partum. I never saw a midwife more than twice and found that the majority didn't listen and didn't care.

When dd was born I had consultant led care and dd was born with the help of two midwives who I hadn't seen before and didn't see again. I saw two community midwives at home because I refused to see more.

My focus would be on competence and listening not relationship. I don't need relationships with transitory figures in my life. I need and expect respect, courtesy and competence.

Male doctor that I had was the only one with fingers long enough to locate my cervix and break my waters. This was after two female midwives had tried and failed whilst causing me considerable discomfort.

He seemed a lot more confident and got the job done and I was glad he did as I was in immense pain before that.

I can understand why some women might feel uncomfortable but there were three other people in the room the whole time including my DH.

Initially I thought this too. I suppose I read all the accounts on here of women who had great experiences with males (as opposed to females) and started wondering whether there is some merit in a male perspective. Just a thought.

Not unreasonably, considering the ratio of male midwives and publicised cases of misconduct.

I had a female midwife and a male in labour (long labour) the female was brusque to the point of rudeness , rolling her eyes told me she thought I'd struggle as my pain threshold was clearly low! The male was lovely, reassuring, supportive, advocated for me and explained things when doctors and consultants were talking over my head. BUT and this is huge for me, before he took over I was given a choice, I felt comfortable with a male midwife there were already male (and female) consultants involved. I'm as GC as they come, but I think as long as there is a choice a male medical practitioner shouldn't be completely out of bounds. It's the choice that's crucial.

Lots of people are replying saying they had male staff staff involved, many of whom were great. But the OP is specifically asking about midwives, not doctors or nurses. She's not suggesting male staff shouldn't be present but the role of a midwife is quite specific having evolved from the role of an older, experienced woman supporting younger mothers through birth.

Times have moved on but there is still very much a need for this role. It goes beyond a medical function - and no, I don't think this support can be offered by a man. Some women will have their mothers with them during birth, others have them on call for support. For a woman like me, with no mother, it was absolutely the reassurance of female experience I needed. A man could not fulfill that role.