to think men shouldn't be midwives

[igglepiggle599]

Just saying, I have nothing against the male midwives themselves. I'm sure they're amazing at what they do and are lovely, kind, caring people. They themselves are not actually the issue I have.

I think many women are uncomfortable with the idea of a male midwife for any number of reasons, and there's a good chance that any given woman will automatically feel uncomfortable when a male midwife walks in. I also find it very disingenuous when people say that they can simply request another midwife. I'm sure that's often true (though maternity units presumable don't have an infinite supply of midwives at any given time, so there's at least a hypothetical scenario in which this wouldn't be possible?). I don't think it's fair that women should be put in a situation where they have to speak up and say that they want a different midwife, particularly when they are extremely vulnerable and possibly in excruciating pain. I'm not a particularly shy or passive person, but I would find that conversation very difficult even when not in labour. I might panic in the moment and wonder whether that amounted to some kind of breach of equality laws, or I might be in such a state that I just didn't want to risk any kind of conflict. Ultimately I would end up with a birth that may well be smooth from a medical point of view but somewhat tainted emotionally, as I would know that an aspect of the situation made me uncomfortable and I hadn't felt able to say anything.

Also, is midwifery even the kind of profession that would actually benefit from gender diversity given that women are the ones who give birth? I'm sure these very talented, compassionate men would be just as valued in a different branch of nursing. Obviously there are male doctors who can end up delivering a baby, but somehow it feels different for men to train in a role that is so intimate.

Very much open to different perspectives.

Not a midwife but did midwifery placement as part of my training, have to say in my limited experience and wider experience in other areas of nursing, that I rarely met a woman who was that bothered, especially in midwifery, most were more concerned about not being in pain than the sex of one of the people helping

YANBU. And all the mothers I know and spoken to feel the same. It's one of these politically incorrect things nobody can say out loud but everybody agrees on. Like soooo many others in these Great Times We Are Living.

It's practically 50/50. Your comments were definitely come across as leaning to no man should be a midwife.

Everyone doesn't agree. Can women please stop telling other women their opinion! Thank you

The irony is astonishing.

Women aren't allowed to tell other women their opinions? Are we really so fragile that we can't hear dissenting views and then decide for ourselves?

Clearly. So much so that women are prepared to put the career aspirations of fewer than 200 hundred of them ahead of the comfort of over 50% of women. Without a single compelling argument as to why this is a good idea.

I do find it very strange that so many people are not just saying they do not care whether their midwife is a man or a woman, but that men are brilliant and so much better and more respectful and skilled than all the women they met. It's also interesting how many women have had a man midwife, considering that there are only a couple of hundred in the country......

Women are not allowed tell other women THEIR own opinion. Sorry I didn't make that as clear as I could have.

@WhatUSeeIsWhatUGet said am everyone felt X way. That's isn't accurate. And I do find this is a typical women issue.

I experience a lot more women telling me women feel xyz, but if I disagree I get told no you don't.

Sorry a little low on coffee but hope that is clearer.

Because we want equality and equality works both ways.

I can do one better. I delivered in Dublin there was of I remember correctly one man in each hospital.

Every woman I met told me about this amazing individual in the hospital I was in. I have met plenty of women who had him deliver we all said the same thing he really was amazing.

Do you think all the surgeons that do female surgeries like prolapse repairs, vaginal hysterectomies, c sections etc are women? Of course not so what is the difference?

Fine, but true equality also has to recognise some degree of inherent difference. It wouldn't be an equal society if the only way women could play sport was to play against men, for example. Restricting male participation in a (very small) number of professions isn't a threat to equality.

Is there still a shortage of midwives?

I remember it being mentioned a lot 10-15 years ago. There was a push to get people into that career and the birth rate has dropped, so perhaps there isn't a shortage there now.

In what way does giving men even more rights help the fight for equality? The inequality we have is weighted heavily in favour of men already, and the work needed is to elevate women to the same level so we can be equal. Surely prioritising the rights of the group who already has the most rights over the group that doesn't actually makes inequality worse? Because in this scenario alone something that is wanted by a tiny number of men is being accommodated despite vast numbers of women (if we extraplotate from this vote) not wanting it. So men are being greatly preferred. How is that equality?

I respectfully disagree. I think having both sexes work together in all roles is crucial to bringing about better wages.

If you look at lower paid roles a lot will be careful related, with typically women. When men join the wages go up.

No role should be sex barred ever.

That’s an incredibly smug and arrogant non-response…

I'm sorry, you misunderstood: I said "every mother I know and spoken to", which is quite different.
The second part of my post had a common figure of speech called generalisation ("everybody agrees") which is the thing that triggered your response, I guess. But that's not to take literally, I'm sure you can understand.

@Tangerinenets "Do you think all the surgeons that do female surgeries like prolapse repairs, vaginal hysterectomies, c sections etc are women? Of course not so what is the difference?"
I can only assume you are being disingenuous here. Or can you really not see the difference between a person doing a "technical" job like surgery, and a person doing the supportive, emotional work that is a significant part of being a midwife?

Isn’t it just.

It depends on how they treat me regardless of their gender or expertise.

I had more horrible female consultants compared to male consultants (only one and said I didn’t want to see him again) but the midwives I’ve had, all female, majority were lovely except a few who were weird for no reason and I held my tongue because I didn’t want the possibility of having them later.

I can see and understand why other women wouldn’t want a male midwife but to say there should be no male midwives at all because of it is what I disagree with.

🤦🏻‍♀️ It’s not the OP that’s being ignorant. It’s not because men haven’t experienced childbirth, nor is it because of an imagined sexual attraction. I’m sorry that you can’t seem to comprehend that some women just do not feel comfortable having men involved in their intimate care during childbirth. There may not be a tangible reason for this, there may be prior trauma. But either way it’s a valid feeling to have and there’s no need for you or anyone else to try and reason it away.

A male midwife is no more or less able to determine the woman’s experience in childbirth compared to a female midwife with no kids

of course a male midwife is less able to understand how vulnerable a woman feels in this situation than a female midwife.

Brilliantly said, thank you 👏

It’s only because, in my opinion, that I think it would be difficult - if not impossible - to actually ensure in practice that all women who objected to having a male midwife were given their preference (and without any passive aggressive posturing as has been described earlier on this thread).

If there was some way of guaranteeing that women could make this choice, well ahead of their actual birth and with no pressure, then fine I can accept male midwives. But given typical NHS staffing levels and shift patterns, I don’t think this is ever going to be possible. The result is women being forced into situations they don’t want to be in, or agreeing under duress while they are in the throws of labour.

Yes, I would agree with this. 👍