to think men shouldn't be midwives

[igglepiggle599]

Just saying, I have nothing against the male midwives themselves. I'm sure they're amazing at what they do and are lovely, kind, caring people. They themselves are not actually the issue I have.

I think many women are uncomfortable with the idea of a male midwife for any number of reasons, and there's a good chance that any given woman will automatically feel uncomfortable when a male midwife walks in. I also find it very disingenuous when people say that they can simply request another midwife. I'm sure that's often true (though maternity units presumable don't have an infinite supply of midwives at any given time, so there's at least a hypothetical scenario in which this wouldn't be possible?). I don't think it's fair that women should be put in a situation where they have to speak up and say that they want a different midwife, particularly when they are extremely vulnerable and possibly in excruciating pain. I'm not a particularly shy or passive person, but I would find that conversation very difficult even when not in labour. I might panic in the moment and wonder whether that amounted to some kind of breach of equality laws, or I might be in such a state that I just didn't want to risk any kind of conflict. Ultimately I would end up with a birth that may well be smooth from a medical point of view but somewhat tainted emotionally, as I would know that an aspect of the situation made me uncomfortable and I hadn't felt able to say anything.

Also, is midwifery even the kind of profession that would actually benefit from gender diversity given that women are the ones who give birth? I'm sure these very talented, compassionate men would be just as valued in a different branch of nursing. Obviously there are male doctors who can end up delivering a baby, but somehow it feels different for men to train in a role that is so intimate.

Very much open to different perspectives.

If you consider patterns of male behaviour in employment and the context of the historical perception of men as superior, I'd say no. A woman in a traditionally male role knows she will be expected to prove herself. A man in a traditionally female role tends to be seen as a valuable addition we should be grateful for.

Men in female dominated jobs typically tend to rise to seniority quite quickly (disproportionately represented as head teachers in primary schools, CEOs in the third sector, and on this thread, one person's male midwife was the head, despite women vastly outnumbering him, only 0.5% of midwives are men) so unless we believe that men are genuinely typically better in women dominated fields than women, we must assume other factors contribute to their rise through the ranks. One of which will no doubt be confidence in their own abilities, as well as bias in their favour. I'm other words, they don't need to try to be especially good. Just being male is enough.

It’s not me who thinks you can eyeball it.

You can in 99.9% of cases.

A man in a traditionally female role tends to be seen as a valuable addition we should be grateful for.

Or a pervert we should ban.

I have no idea if it's BS pseudo science but I read that having males around has an effect on birthing hormones and birth progression.

(Not a positive effect).

I'm sure youre right. I was just throwing it out there.

One thing I would take issue with is you saying teaching in primary schools is a female profession!

When you or your baby is near death believe me the sex of the midwife or consultant is the last thing on your mind. The first thing on my mind was making sure my son was born alive. If I left it to the males and females pretending to care for me I wouldnt have walked out with my son. It took me a few years to get over the trauma. The female midwife said to me I should not be going for an assisted birth. The next morning my male consultant told me I did the right thing opting for a forceps delivery. My son would have died. Women go through traumatic births did you know that?

But not all. Honestly hun - read the replies I replied to if you’re that interested in this particular tangent. Because I’m not that interested so I'm not taking it even more off course with a tit for tat on stating the bleeding obvious.

I was quite quickly past caring.

I think male obstetricians are different to midwives. That is becoming a more female dominated field too. But a midwife is there for hours, helps you breastfeed, does intimate examinations etc. I had only female midwives and while some were not great, others was lovely and it was their gentleness and empathy that i remember best. I would not have experienced that in the same way with a man, however lovely they were.

There's also the fact as with male doctors that while the majority are good, some will statistically be predatory in their intentions and there is no way of knowing which ones they will be. Healthcare is a long, long way from dealing with this problem.

I've never met a male midwife. My consultant did say he was going to deliver my baby and I told him no it's not working out it has to be assisted. The midwife said I was pushing in the wrong direction??? What direction can I push in it can't be up. I had 3 natural births before having my son and the nurse from the GP surgery warned me it was going to be a difficult birth.

Would it bother me having a male midwife in one way no in another yes. I wouldn't want to be alone with him. I was never alone with any male doctor or consultant there was always a woman present.

But many people who believe in gender think that a baby at birth is only assigned male or female and that it can change later when the child realises their gender, which is bollocks. Sex is observed and it can’t change. Women can’t become men and men can’t become women by using the ideology of gender. Only women get pregnant, the vast majority of babies can have their sex observed, with so much around pregnancy, birth and babies being to do with your sex, it’s important to me to have medical professionals who have a grip on biology and don’t buy into gender nonsense.

When i had my 2nd it was an unexpected delivery on the living room floor. I had a male and female paramedic attend and I couldn't give a shit as baby needed delivered. I do remember though the male paramedic was buzzing as it was his first delivery.

I've also had internal exams provided by a male doctor again find my problems I don't care.

I sometimes feel like people of the opposite sex can be less dismissive. Sort of like they don't assume they know what the problem is.

A few years ago, my partner was feeling a bit flat and his libido was suffering. Said it had been gradual and he'd assumed it was his job and associated stress etc, but it had reached a point where it didn't feel normal. Two male GPs tried to give him anti depressants. He then wondered if it was low testosterone and the third one wouldn't take him seriously and made comments about him being a big strapping guy with a burly beard.

The fourth doctor (a woman) actually listened to him and turns out he did have hypogonadism. As his level had just crept into the bottom of the range the other male doctors had dismissed it, but he actually had levels in the 85-100yo bracket at 30yo. The woman had done her research and advised that the British Society for Sexual Medicine classed his levels as well below the acceptable range for his age and on that basis she would offer him a trial of the medicine.

The others could've offered him a trial but they used his results as reason not to, although in most other trusts he'd have been eligible - this one had strangely lower cutoff points. The blokes just dismissed him based on being a big strong guy but the woman didn't assume she knew better and really listened to him and did get research. Anecdotal but I've sometimes experienced the same

YABU.
I've had some great male doctors, and as a result would have no problem with a male midwife either.
They're just doing their job, they'll have seen it all before.
If they keep me comfortable and safe, I don't care what sex they are.
If you would prefer a female one, that's your choice and that should be upheld.
Completely disagree that they shouldn't be midwives at all though, that's just straight up sex discrimination.

I don’t think logic comes into it. It’s how I feel - and how would a male midwife conduct postnatal checks in my home? He’d need to be accompanied by a chaperone for me.

If you think it’s fine for a male midwife to watch me try to breastfeed and touch my breasts while trying to get baby to latch, can you explain why my NHS trust only allows female staff to perform mammograms?

That's true, with my second I don't think I'd have noticed (or if I had, wouldn't have cared) if it was a trained chimp assisting 😂

I had a female midwife with my first and a male with my second. The male midwife was far better. He listened to me, was very empathetic, and ensured my birth plan was followed to the letter. His sex was completely irrelevant. He’d been in a programme on TV about this very subject. Thank you Gary Slevin, you were awesome!

But aren't women the main abusers of children?

I've never heard of anyone having post-natal checks at home conducted by a male, so I don't know. I had checks before leaving hospital (I was in around a week each time), midwives checking my wound/blood loss etc for a few days after then HV and I had a 6 week post-natal check with my male obs each time.

I'm not privy to or responsible for the rules imposed by your NHS trust. I can only guess that attitudes as displayed here mean that they don't appoint males. I don't know if this is an exemption under legislation and I'm not interested enough to find out.

It felt deeply uncomfortable having another woman manipulate my breasts to assist me in breastfeeding so I don't know if it would have been any more awkward having a man do it. I don't necessarily see the 'person' as such, but the professional. I needed help to feed my babies, so I was taking that help from wherever I could get it!

Where did you hear that?

What's the issue you have a choice? I don't care if it's a man. Is my opinion not as valid? I don't particularly find women in any way better qualified nor emphatic

I had a male midwife with my second baby. He was brilliant, fun, lovely, pretty camp and wearing a lot of mascara

figure male midwives are like female plumbers - you're only going to go into it, I imagine, if you are going to be good as you'll face a lot of prejudice

Not sure how your list relates to the job?

Can you see the connection between woman and midwife?

Accountant and tax return?

Butcher and meat?

Political preference/ meat eating/ driving licence- sorry I can't see the connection between this and the job of midwife. I think in trying to be clever, you missed the point.

This! 👏👏

Slightly different thing but after several nightmare smear tests 'performed' by female nurses, I was referred to the hospital where I was seen by a male gynaecologist, who put me totally at ease and had the procedure done in seconds, pain free, in fact, almost didn't noticed he'd done it. So, on that basis, YABU.