to think men shouldn't be midwives

[igglepiggle599]

Just saying, I have nothing against the male midwives themselves. I'm sure they're amazing at what they do and are lovely, kind, caring people. They themselves are not actually the issue I have.

I think many women are uncomfortable with the idea of a male midwife for any number of reasons, and there's a good chance that any given woman will automatically feel uncomfortable when a male midwife walks in. I also find it very disingenuous when people say that they can simply request another midwife. I'm sure that's often true (though maternity units presumable don't have an infinite supply of midwives at any given time, so there's at least a hypothetical scenario in which this wouldn't be possible?). I don't think it's fair that women should be put in a situation where they have to speak up and say that they want a different midwife, particularly when they are extremely vulnerable and possibly in excruciating pain. I'm not a particularly shy or passive person, but I would find that conversation very difficult even when not in labour. I might panic in the moment and wonder whether that amounted to some kind of breach of equality laws, or I might be in such a state that I just didn't want to risk any kind of conflict. Ultimately I would end up with a birth that may well be smooth from a medical point of view but somewhat tainted emotionally, as I would know that an aspect of the situation made me uncomfortable and I hadn't felt able to say anything.

Also, is midwifery even the kind of profession that would actually benefit from gender diversity given that women are the ones who give birth? I'm sure these very talented, compassionate men would be just as valued in a different branch of nursing. Obviously there are male doctors who can end up delivering a baby, but somehow it feels different for men to train in a role that is so intimate.

Very much open to different perspectives.

No, it doesn't. Because there is no basis for their "discomfort". I thought modern women were more ballsy than that.

@Strawber I posted my negative experience on here.

I also had a really nasty midwife at my first birth with DD who is now 9; I was quite young and I was scared and in pain, she was awful. But it's not the same as the feelings of violation and sense of threat caused by a man.

I still don't think male midwifes should or even could be banned. I just there needs to be more acknowledgement, more safeguarding, and a campaign to spread awareness and comfortability to women to ask for female practitioners or chaperones.

I also think there needs to be a cultural shift with more safeguarding awareness around staff.

Balls. Literally.

I had male midwife for my first and he was great. I was asked first if I was happy for him to be my midwife, at the start by a female midwife. My birth was long and complicated and he had to stay in the room the whole time. I would rather have a male midwife who was very skilled at his job, then a female who made mistakes. However I can understand why some women would be uncomfortable with males.

You’re confusing fact with opinion.

Really... so all the women who have been assaulted by men have absolutely no basis for their discomfort in one of the most vulnerable times of their life?

What the fuck is this.

Oh yes, our "ballsiness" will protect us from both the act of sexual assault and predation, and the trauma caused by it! Yay!

You know, my partner said the same. Alas, despite knowing my friend for donkey's years, he did not clock it. Maybe you have better perceptive powers but I would say very few people in our circle even considered it to be a possibility.

Excuse me, I am not the one doing the "twisting".

And as the profession is short-staffed, it could very well be the choice between a man or nobody.

And even you can't "twist" that.

A friend of mine is a paramedic with 35 years service, he's delivered 16 babies in emergency situations on shift....I'm pretty sure none of the women, some in life or death situations, gave a shiny shit that he was male.

Men don't need to become midwives. I am suspicious of why they would want to, when they know that they're entering a field that will make many, many women in a vulnerable state uncomfortable, unless they're in too much pain. Or because women don't feel fully able to decline them, because they don't want to cause a fuss/seem unfair/etc. I actually think the same about male OB/gyns.

I always ask for women. Not all female medics I've had have been great, but prior to specifying that I want women, neither had the men. But at least the women aren't men!

I also think that if you had only women on a gynae/obs team then every team member could see every patient. As soon as you bring in a male, you have someone who some women won't want to be seeing. Or they feel coerced into accepting him, because they know the NHS is on its knees.

Crap.

She walks in, I’d be able to identify she was a woman and I have no issue with female midwives. If I thought she was a man, doubtful I wouldn’t be able to tell, I’d refuse.

However I would prefer not to be treated by a trans medical professional as I would doubt their medical knowledge. Biology is fairly important in healthcare and a medical person that thinks a woman can be a man wouldn’t be someone I’d really want treating me.

Word salad which doesn't answer my question. I am guessing it's because you don't have the answer. It's ok.

I have said repeatedly that I am not referring to anyone who has been the victim of assault. Is that too difficult to comprehend?

Fucking hell.

No it’s definitely fact.

I am bloody angry on behalf of all of the decent, caring men who have dedicated their lives to healthcare for women, to see men like them dissed as predators with nefarious reasons for their choice of career, is literally disgusting.

Why are you angry with women and not the men who have assaulted women so that women feel the need to avoid men?

Why do you consider a woman’s desire for safety, privacy and dignity when she is at her most vulnerable, less than the feelings of a man?

This is misogyny writ large.

Its fine for men to be midwives, but a woman should be able to say no to a male midwife.

I have had a couple of different appointments where a female nurse would be present during an examination. I wonder how this would work having a male midwife?

Wow! No basis for their discomfort. Wtf?

No they could just swap with a female midwife whose caring for another mother, unless you end up in a situation where every mother on the labour ward declines the only male midwife… in which case that’s a unique situation and they could move him to another part of the unit. The male midwife’s hurty feelings don’t trump a woman’s request for a female healthcare provider.

Fair. The initial comment wasn't addressed to you but to someone who said they want a person born with a vagina regardless of their sex or gender. You want someone who was born and appears as a female. That's a slightly different debate that I have nothing to add to.

👏👏

Well that's very convenient. But the fact that most assault is committed by MEN makes a lot of women very wary. Not sure why you're so keen to defend male midwives, I can only assume you're one yourself

What do you think that the tiny proportion of men who are attracted to midwifery might bring to the role that couldn't be found in an equally trained woman? What is it about letting men into the profession that would reassure you you were getting the best? How much choice did you have to select the best? Were you allowed to see the CVs of all the possible midwives? Get references in order to choose the best for yourself? How would excluding men change the level of choice you could excercise?