to think men shouldn't be midwives

[igglepiggle599]

Just saying, I have nothing against the male midwives themselves. I'm sure they're amazing at what they do and are lovely, kind, caring people. They themselves are not actually the issue I have.

I think many women are uncomfortable with the idea of a male midwife for any number of reasons, and there's a good chance that any given woman will automatically feel uncomfortable when a male midwife walks in. I also find it very disingenuous when people say that they can simply request another midwife. I'm sure that's often true (though maternity units presumable don't have an infinite supply of midwives at any given time, so there's at least a hypothetical scenario in which this wouldn't be possible?). I don't think it's fair that women should be put in a situation where they have to speak up and say that they want a different midwife, particularly when they are extremely vulnerable and possibly in excruciating pain. I'm not a particularly shy or passive person, but I would find that conversation very difficult even when not in labour. I might panic in the moment and wonder whether that amounted to some kind of breach of equality laws, or I might be in such a state that I just didn't want to risk any kind of conflict. Ultimately I would end up with a birth that may well be smooth from a medical point of view but somewhat tainted emotionally, as I would know that an aspect of the situation made me uncomfortable and I hadn't felt able to say anything.

Also, is midwifery even the kind of profession that would actually benefit from gender diversity given that women are the ones who give birth? I'm sure these very talented, compassionate men would be just as valued in a different branch of nursing. Obviously there are male doctors who can end up delivering a baby, but somehow it feels different for men to train in a role that is so intimate.

Very much open to different perspectives.

People are saying that there would be outrage if women were excluded from a profession.

Can you give me a single typically male profession that centers on helping people to do something painful, physically and mentally demanding, and such that it's success depends on the person feeling calm and safe? And also, that many of their vulnerable clients are such that they are statistically be more likely to feel safe around men? I genuinely can't think of any examples.

I also want to point out that it just doesn't occur to many women that they might have a male midwife. I would have NO MEN on my file in a shot now, but before my first DC it hadn't even occured to me. Luckily I'd read a bunch of hypnobirthing books so was very prepared to say no to anything I didn't like the sound of in the moment, but lots of women aren't.

I said I didn't want any male HCPs looking after me, then I ended up having a c section and there were male surgeons and a male anaesthetist in the operating theatre, so that went out of the window. Don't know how I'd feel about a male midwife specifically, but as I'm not having another child I'm not going to find out.

Arent they just saying

Im not bothered but
There should be a choice

You are "unsure of its relevance" because you are failing to understand it.

I wasn't talking about changing rooms. I was talking about a medical setting.

I don't feel any more uncomfortable being intimately examined by a male professional than I do a female. I don't differentiate between the sexes. I don't enjoy being intimately examined (who does?!) but I am a reasonable adult and I accept that it's necessary sometimes. These people are not looking at a fanny for the hell of it. I am sure they're about as nondescript as a tin of biscuits after seeing them for a living all day every day.

But this doesn't mean that 98% of men are sexual predators. If you want to talk statistics, let's. First of all, 98% of sexual assault convictions are for crimes committed by men. That's an important distinction. We don't have data for the actual crimes which could be a higher or lower percentage.
50% of rapes are committed by an intimate partner.
80% of sexual assaults are committed by a perpetrator known by a victim. Which may be a healthcare professional but can also be a teacher, neighbour or a family member.
So that leaves us with a relatively small percentage of strangers who commit sexual offences. Out of that relatively small percentage, there is an even smaller percentage of doctors (with whom, I note, the OP does not have any issues) and male midwives.
There are fewer than 200 male midwives in the UK. Looking at the above statistics, how many of them do you think are likely to have gone into the profession to specifically abuse vulnerable women?

'Shit on the parade' of women who 'aren't bothered'? Do you understand what 'not bothered' means? It means they don't mind if they have a woman or a man. It doesn't mean that they desperately want a man and would feel 'shat on' if denied one, does it? Other than the women who are desperate to defend men's rights, so will maybe say it to prove a point, what woman would ever say they really wanted a man rather than a woman to deliver their baby? I'm guessing none. So by all means keep banging the drum for mens rights if you must, but trying to frame it as a service to women is a stretch too far.

I'd rather a male midwife came and did what was needed than my child or I suffered. I'm sure a woman could request a female if they were bothered, and I'm sure that request would be upheld if it could be, but ultimately, there's a midwife shortage even with the male midwifes that we have. To say no male midwives means the possibility of women and babies coming to harm because of a lack of care, and that's stupid and dangerous.

What if it's a trans female midwife - can women object to that? (I don't say my view on that)

I think this shows a real lack of understanding of how trauma, especially sexual trauma, affects people.

Trauma can be a life sentence for a survivor. Building a life and relationships can be a challenge that requires a person to struggle every day. Someone having a relationship and/or a child does not mean they aren't also surviving and living with the effects of trauma.

Safeguarding is thinking the worst and putting practices in place to stop it. It requires you to think ‘what if one of my colleagues was seeking opportunities to abuse children in our care, how do we stop that?’ Because in any reasonable sized work place there will be someone who is.

And the sexual assaults you mentioned?

I was also hoping to see the details behind the headline…number of staff on patient attacks, what departments they are happening in?

I’m sure you’re aware that there are a fair few SA’s in morgues in these figures and we can’t blame the male midwives for those.

I had a male midwife for the birth of my second child, it was unexpected as I was down for a home birth - he came to help even though I had two midwives and a student and a doctor but the birth had stopped progressing and he was actually the most senior midwife in the hospital, well respected by staff and actually I preferred him to the female doctor - my first child's birth at a different hospital was traumatic, my second child's birth was a walk in the park thanks to the male midwife - I would say keep an open mind.

Yeah, sure they're all at it. Down with men!

Do you mean a man who identifies as trans, or a woman who identifies as trans?

Some of these people wouldn't know an "open mind" if they fucking tripped and fell over one!!

Does it matter either way?

There's being aware and taking reasonable steps in terms of safeguarding and there's OTT hysteria that all men are predators!!

Easily got around. Just ask for a midwife who was born with a vagina (no need to specify a sex/gender at all).

Great for you. Other women are uncomfortable and their feelings matter. It doesn’t make women unreasonable to only want female midwives etc.

Why does feeling uncomfortable around an unknown man while in a vulnerable position make someone closed minded?

It’s not prejudice to not want a male midwife. The misogyny is actually from those who value men’s right to be a midwife over women’s rights to feel as comfortable as possible when giving birth.

Data shows that women have better outcomes when operated on by a female surgeon compared to a male surgeon. Women’s medical problems have been dismissed by men for years and women labelled hysterical. The vast majority of sexual violence is perpetrated by men against women. It’s a well established phenomenon that sexual abusers actively pursue careers that give them access to vulnerable women and children - schools and hospitals being the most commonplace.

That doesn’t mean it applies to all men who become midwives. But it does mean it’s completely rational for women to prefer female care when at their most vulnerable, based on the statistics.

And it is misogynistic to gaslight women into believing they’re the ones being sexist by expressing those well founded concerns or exercising those rights.

There's no point is there.

Never realised how many ardent men-haters there were out there!

I think most intelligent, open-minded women would prefer to have a male midwife than none!! But you waffle on about stretches too far if that what makes you happy!!

Yes. As has been discussed many women don’t want a male midwife.

I had no faith in it.
One male member of staff made a comment about the breasts of a young teen patient (he said she had a "cracking pair"), and nothing was done. I was labelled a trouble maker for bringing it up... apparently his comment was just banter.

So you all don't get to choose your midwife? I'm in the US, so all my babies were delivered by a (male) OB/GYN. But here you choose your doctor and that's who delivers you. It's the same if you choose a midwife, but less common.