to think men shouldn't be midwives

[igglepiggle599]

Just saying, I have nothing against the male midwives themselves. I'm sure they're amazing at what they do and are lovely, kind, caring people. They themselves are not actually the issue I have.

I think many women are uncomfortable with the idea of a male midwife for any number of reasons, and there's a good chance that any given woman will automatically feel uncomfortable when a male midwife walks in. I also find it very disingenuous when people say that they can simply request another midwife. I'm sure that's often true (though maternity units presumable don't have an infinite supply of midwives at any given time, so there's at least a hypothetical scenario in which this wouldn't be possible?). I don't think it's fair that women should be put in a situation where they have to speak up and say that they want a different midwife, particularly when they are extremely vulnerable and possibly in excruciating pain. I'm not a particularly shy or passive person, but I would find that conversation very difficult even when not in labour. I might panic in the moment and wonder whether that amounted to some kind of breach of equality laws, or I might be in such a state that I just didn't want to risk any kind of conflict. Ultimately I would end up with a birth that may well be smooth from a medical point of view but somewhat tainted emotionally, as I would know that an aspect of the situation made me uncomfortable and I hadn't felt able to say anything.

Also, is midwifery even the kind of profession that would actually benefit from gender diversity given that women are the ones who give birth? I'm sure these very talented, compassionate men would be just as valued in a different branch of nursing. Obviously there are male doctors who can end up delivering a baby, but somehow it feels different for men to train in a role that is so intimate.

Very much open to different perspectives.

Actually it is legally speaking allowed. I know in my previous NHS trust breast screening used to advertise for women only and cited the legal reason. Imo midwifery should potentially be more relevant to this than breast screening.

This isn't to say that male midwives, doctors, breast screening staff et. are bad or incompetent, far from it. But i can very much see the reasoning for excluding them.

I’d rather change alone too, but I am ok to change with women if it comes to it. I would never want to change in front of any man that isn’t my partner. Most women I know feel the same, some feel like you but none would feel happier changing with men.

If you don’t want to change with women, you have the choice to use places with individual changing rooms, like women should have the choice to not have make midwives and be able to think that men shouldn’t be allowed in the profession.

You’re not comfortable with changing in front of men or women so your post isn’t an argument for male midwives. I am therefore unsure of its relevance.

Honestly I think you’re in very dangerous territory when you’re going to try and claim there are “womens” jobs and “mens” jobs.

The argument that these are older women with experience helping young mum’s just isn’t accurate either. I had my daughter 7 months ago and 2 of my midwives were young women- amazing care and no complaints whatsoever- but they were both younger than me and neither had any children. They were no more able to share experience or guide me than one of the other midwives who actually ended up helping to deliver my baby who happened to be a man. If anything the male midwife had far more experience, he was older, was 15 years into the job and really knew how to keep things calm etc, the 2 women weren’t automatically better than him because they have vaginas.

You misinterpret as have others. If a woman hasn't recovered from the trauma of abuse, how does she forge a loving, intimate relationship with a man. Also surely the professionally qualified male Dr or midwife is separatenfrom an abuser.

You make a good point referencing a stranger but strangers are not necessarily men.

Women who would prefer a male midwife aren't a disadvantaged minority.

Also, it's disingenuous to imply that it's easy to register this preference. Often it isn't.

So tell me, what harm have male midwives done to women on this thread who have anecdotally shared their own positive experiences?

If you don't want assistance from a male because of your own prejudice, that's on you. What, however, you don't have nor should you have, the ability to prevent men training in these female-dominated careers in the first place.

I bet you would be screaming from the rooftops if someone was adamantly excluding women from male-dominated careers!! Equality goes both ways.

I think it's a huge advantage to women to have a competent and skilled midwife of either sex. You'd think in the face of skills shortages, women would be grateful for that.

It's not about women's wishes. Women can have their wishes. They can refuse male care if they wish, they can have it recorded on their notes, and their birth partner can advocate for them.

Lots of women on this thread have said they're not remotely bothered by having a male midwife. So do you want to shit on their parades too?

I can't believe how many people are so narrow minded. And I'm the old person ffs!

You need to get a refund on those training courses. 98% of sex assaults are carried out by men and 88% of victims are female. Men will spend years training in professions that grant them access to vulnerable women/children be it midwifery, teaching, priesthood or being scout leaders. They will also groom those around them. This is safeguarding 101.

Please stop, I beg you!

Have you got the source/link?

A lot of the SAs in the NHS are staff on staff from my understanding.

I had a really lovely male doctor with my first birth. I was struggling to push my baby out, what felt like 100 people had rushed into the room, nobody really seemed to care that I was going into shock, terrified, my mum was starting to cry, and his calm, clear and reassuring voice guided me through and got my baby out safely. I don't know if he was way or straight but he was amazing and non creepy.

I had an obviously gay male obstetrician examine me in my last pregnancy and yes, after my experience with the male midwife, his serial orientation put me at ease.

Obviously the answer can't be to ban entire sexes from entire professions. But there's to much complacency and underestimating about a) the lengths predatory men will go to to gain access to victims and b) the fact that lots of "normal" men who don't consider themselves predatory, can blur these lines and boundaries when they are in these positions. More needs to be done to assure that women don't come away from essential medical treatment feeling concerned, victimised or traumatised.

I agree most women would not actively prefer a male midwife. I would argue however that most women, when it comes down to it, wouldn’t have the sex of their midwife as the most important factor.

If asked to describe my perfect midwife, I’d be able to list many attributes before I even thought about their sex. In fact, I don’t think I’d consider their sex at all really. I want kind, competent, experienced, patient, proactive, calm…. I don’t care what genitals they have. If you banned half the population from midwifery you’d be limiting my choice.

it is totally legitimate to say that actually the sex of your midwife is one of the most important factors TO YOU as an individual, but it has to remain a choice for women, not a directive.

Fucking hell. This comment is disgusting.

“I have nothing against male midwives” but also I think they shouldn’t exist. So you do have something against them: the fact that they’re male!

I think the double standard is so wrong: male obstetrician fine, male midwife not fine. How is this not gender stereotyping according to role?

@Lookingatthesunset Yes, some women don't mind a male midwife, (and they are entitled to say that.)

But some women DON'T want a male midwife, and the shitty attitude on here (from some) towards women who feel uncomfortable with a male midwife is disgusting and terrifying!

.

So men should never work with other people, ever? That is pretty much what you are saying.

MN is utter men hating trash sometimes.

Your comment was shocking and disgusting as several posters have told you… please don’t try and defend it further!

Male midwives can be competent, they can also be getting off on the experience. This is vile to think about, but there are a lot of predators and fantastists out there and the majority are men who probably present as normal guys.

Rape can only be carried out by men in the UK as it requires the use of a penis.

My make FME, Proff Nikolaides, and his student Jesus (my mum couldn't get the prayer cards out quick enough at that point), saved my twins and my life. The nicu consultant that called in was also male. By the time I was as almost dying I couldn't have given a fuck who was helping.

Totally understand that women may not be comfortable with it though.

Completely disagree. That’s all.

I agree there are lots of appalling midwives - lacking empathy, patronising or just plain stupid (sometimes a combination of the three). That’s a separate issue though.

You really didn’t learn anything from those safeguarding courses did you?

So How would you feel if a female midwife was looking after you and was gay??

Fucking hell,

Some of the comments here are terrible. Lesbians aren’t a threat other women like man can be. It’s about sex, not sexuality.

The posters on here putting the wants of men above the safety, dignity and privacy of women is shocking.

They were mostly about recognising abuse and the subtle signs (in children)... not outright accusing any man we worked with. Men were also on the courses.