to think men shouldn't be midwives

[igglepiggle599]

Just saying, I have nothing against the male midwives themselves. I'm sure they're amazing at what they do and are lovely, kind, caring people. They themselves are not actually the issue I have.

I think many women are uncomfortable with the idea of a male midwife for any number of reasons, and there's a good chance that any given woman will automatically feel uncomfortable when a male midwife walks in. I also find it very disingenuous when people say that they can simply request another midwife. I'm sure that's often true (though maternity units presumable don't have an infinite supply of midwives at any given time, so there's at least a hypothetical scenario in which this wouldn't be possible?). I don't think it's fair that women should be put in a situation where they have to speak up and say that they want a different midwife, particularly when they are extremely vulnerable and possibly in excruciating pain. I'm not a particularly shy or passive person, but I would find that conversation very difficult even when not in labour. I might panic in the moment and wonder whether that amounted to some kind of breach of equality laws, or I might be in such a state that I just didn't want to risk any kind of conflict. Ultimately I would end up with a birth that may well be smooth from a medical point of view but somewhat tainted emotionally, as I would know that an aspect of the situation made me uncomfortable and I hadn't felt able to say anything.

Also, is midwifery even the kind of profession that would actually benefit from gender diversity given that women are the ones who give birth? I'm sure these very talented, compassionate men would be just as valued in a different branch of nursing. Obviously there are male doctors who can end up delivering a baby, but somehow it feels different for men to train in a role that is so intimate.

Very much open to different perspectives.

I totally agree with this. In fact I was going to say that women are absolutely allowed to state it in their notes and on their birth plan that they would like to have a female midwife.

I didn't even meet most of the midwives other than maybe my booking in appt because I had consultant antenatal care.

However, the way our hospital worked was that each pregnant woman was allocated to a team of midwives, and could expect that at least one of them would be on duty when they came in to give birth.

I did see the midwives as well 3rd time so that I knew them better but by then a lot of them already did know me after two births and a week's stay each time!

I agree.
I'm sure I'll get slated for this but I think birth is a feminine spiritual process as well as a physical one. It is unique to women and I think the age old traditions of women caring for women through this experience is fitting.

You’re comparing a nurse with a doctor not a woman with a man.

I don't want to strip off with other women either! That makes me uncomfortable too. You do what you have to do to get that baby out safely!

I'm glad that that's available. I think this should be asked routinely (assuming it isn't already), rather than have medical professionals to just expect the woman to bring it up.

How very quaint.

I'm sure most women in the throes of labour or bent double over their c/section ravaged stomach, feel the spirituality of it and the need to commune with other women 🙄

I'm guessing the OP and other posters here want men banned from any roles in which they might sexually exploit women (or other men).

So no male social workers.

No male nurses

No male therapists.

No male doctors.

No male teachers.

No male nursery workers.

Any I've missed?

No male police.

Are you against criminal profiling of people according to gender but not OK with racial profiling? If you belong to a group responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime is it reasonable to target you with social sanctions and restrictions just on that basis?

Women are responsible for more cases of infanticide than men. Is this an argument for not having women nurses working in neonatal units?

Some, yes.

What are you saying - that the Dr was better because he was a man? Surely not? Because if not, it's just as easily an argument for more doctors in the labour ward, not more men.

Huh? I think you’d piss a lot of nurses off if you suggested that they are less competent at carrying out smear tests than doctors…

I’m actually just comparing two individuals. One happened to be a female nurse and one happened to be a male doctor. The one who caused less pain happened to be the male. That’s actually the point I’m making…

“Women are allowed” still puts the onus on the woman to raise it. Many won’t think of it until in that position and even if they do, feel like they’re being difficult by raising it. It should be assumed they’re not ok with it unless they confirm otherwise - and the onus should be on the midwife during those early appointments to check.

Front and centre on the Birth Plan

The only person who was ever rough with me while in labour was a female doctor. The male obstetricians I had both times were very kind. I’m too old to be having babies now, but I wouldn’t have objected to a male midwife.

Also the 1 in 4 rape stats I got from rape crisis https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/statistics-sexual-violence

Really? I don't recall the matter of male midwives ever being brought up.

They are not in the main

Very unreasonable. All that's needed is someone competent to deliver a baby. That could be either a man or a woman. It's about knowledge and skill, not sex.

Yes, this

If women have suffered past trauma at the hands of males, and if it continues to traumatise them, how did they get themselves into a position where they trusted a man enough to have sex with him and make a baby, but can't trust a clinically qualified male midwife, or I suppose male obstetrician?

Sure - if it is your primary and most important concern.
There will of course be some women for whom it is, but again, not for everyone, which is why choice is important.

Personally for me, front and centre would have been a kind, competent, experienced, skilled midwife, their sex would be secondary to that.

I’m not suggesting that at all. You’re suggesting that women are less competent than men, based on one experience with two people in totally different job roles.

I want to say YABU, but my experience is negative too. I had a male midwife in just the last hour of one of my children's birth, and he made me very uncomfortable.

He was hugely over familiar from the outset. He examined me for grazes after birth in a way that felt invasive, inappropriate, and made me extremely uncomfortable. He kissed me once my partner and everybody else left the room. I felt very vulnerable.

He then came to the postnatal ward the next morning and he was very over the top, inserting himself into the conversation I was having with my partner and a (female) midwife I was more familiar with.

I have never reported this, as I'm unsure whether I was just misinterpreting the situation, thinking that maybe he was being so over the top and overly intimate because he was a male in a female dominated profession.

He had also made several comments that made it clear he was straight. It just all felt uncomfortable and wrong.

Really? Midwifery is not something someone walks into from the street. It takes years of training, and it is competitive too. That is a lot of effort to get to see vag.

From an ideological, academic perspective I'd love to agree with you. Unfortunately, my lived experience is of being "cared for" by uncompassionate, nasty bitches in a midwifery team before a kind, gentle and understanding male obstetrician turned up and took me seriously. So sadly, I can't get on board with the spirit of your post, much as I'd like it to be possible to.