to think men shouldn't be midwives

[igglepiggle599]

Just saying, I have nothing against the male midwives themselves. I'm sure they're amazing at what they do and are lovely, kind, caring people. They themselves are not actually the issue I have.

I think many women are uncomfortable with the idea of a male midwife for any number of reasons, and there's a good chance that any given woman will automatically feel uncomfortable when a male midwife walks in. I also find it very disingenuous when people say that they can simply request another midwife. I'm sure that's often true (though maternity units presumable don't have an infinite supply of midwives at any given time, so there's at least a hypothetical scenario in which this wouldn't be possible?). I don't think it's fair that women should be put in a situation where they have to speak up and say that they want a different midwife, particularly when they are extremely vulnerable and possibly in excruciating pain. I'm not a particularly shy or passive person, but I would find that conversation very difficult even when not in labour. I might panic in the moment and wonder whether that amounted to some kind of breach of equality laws, or I might be in such a state that I just didn't want to risk any kind of conflict. Ultimately I would end up with a birth that may well be smooth from a medical point of view but somewhat tainted emotionally, as I would know that an aspect of the situation made me uncomfortable and I hadn't felt able to say anything.

Also, is midwifery even the kind of profession that would actually benefit from gender diversity given that women are the ones who give birth? I'm sure these very talented, compassionate men would be just as valued in a different branch of nursing. Obviously there are male doctors who can end up delivering a baby, but somehow it feels different for men to train in a role that is so intimate.

Very much open to different perspectives.

@@MemorableTrenchcoat · Today 21:27

Having a penis and testicle is a uniquely male thing, and I’m sure there are plenty of men who would prefer that female doctors go nowhere near that area. Does that mean that women should be excluded from any job where they would have to examine or operate upon a penis?

I knew someone would throw this chestnut in.

Every single time my DH has gone to the GP for anything to do with his balls, penis, arse etc (and my brother too, and quite a number of other men I know,) they have specifically requested a MALE DOCTOR. Most men I know want a male doctor for anything that it intimate or 'embarrassing.' (They have always got one too, on request.)

Also, although they do exist, I have yet to personally experience a female Consultant Surgeon - They have nearly ALL been male.. Indeed only around 14% of Consultant Surgeons are female... (DH has the same experience.) And nearly 90% of Urologists are male. So most men won't have to worry about a female consultant handling his willy!

!

I had a male midwife for my first quite long delivery which ended in an emergency C section. He was nice, competent and I certainly never felt he was looking at me in a different way. However I did feel like he didn’t really understand what I was feeling or what women felt… And I know there are lots of women who are midwives who haven’t had kids… It was just something I can’t put my finger on like he just didn’t get it. I was on my own as am single and I would have liked a bit more sympathy at times x

In the US, women see their obstetrician for antenatal care and delivery. Female obstetricians are in a slight majority at this point, but your chances of finding a male one are still very high.

My obstetricians were 3 male, 1 female. They all had the same medical training and were similarly experienced. All were great.

British women are more used to (female) midwife led deliveries, so perhaps the idea of a male, or a male doctor, performing internal exams or attending a delivery is hard to imagine, but it's routine elsewhere.

I've had pap smears and manual breast exams done by male GPs too, and mammogram results examined by two male radiologists.

The idea that a woman will be more respectful or that you couldn't say what you felt you needed to say to a male HCP is one I find odd, based on my experience. The only doctor I wouldn't discuss my details with in any detail is my DS, and that would be true if one of my DDs were a doctor too.

Neither did I. You see, the clue was in the word "antenatal".

My consultant checked and took out the staples in my tummy too, before I left hospital.

I think I would know that the "majority" of my own contact with the HCPs involved with my care was, without a stranger on the internet telling me otherwise!!

If you have birth problems you will have a doctor, likely male, if you have gynaelogical issues, a doctor, also likely male .... so what is the difference of a male or female midwife?

And yet, you don't seem to be able to articulate what the issue actually is. You seem to take an issue with the statistics of sexual assault on women, yet you don't address the point @vibratosprigato made about consultants being just as likely to offend as male midwives. You seem to be comfortable with male consultants. So, the issue isn't sexual offences. What is it then?

Bet you don’t have any issue what so ever with male obstetricians

I've worked with a number of male midwives, all of whom have been great at their job and gave great care. I'd rather have had any of them at my first birth then have had the midwife that belittled me and made me traumatised.

You do have a choice. If you don't want a male midwife then say so. They are used to this and would rather a woman spoke up then felt uncomfortable during her time in maternity

I think though, as other posters have said, this situation is unique to the profession of midwifery- a profession that isn’t practiced all over the world, and is unfamiliar in countries where a doctor delivers your baby. So it’s partly cultural, and rooted in the history of midwifery which is about women supporting women.

I think anyone should be able to request male or female midwife.

Having said that, I had male consultant led care and got to know most of the midwives asI spent significant time in hospital.

There were 17 people in the room when I gave birth - emergency section for twins. My then H counted them.

Paediatrician and two nurses per baby, and each baby went straight to a resuscitaire and then neonatal intensive care plus the surgical team, me and my then H and a team for me.

I don't think you could have assembled that team and had it be all male or all female so I think in cases where the mothers or the baby's life is at stake the hospital do need to be able to over ride the all male or all female thing.

I had so many scans and monitors. I spent the month before they were born in hospital in bed rest. I wouldn't say I developed a particular relationship with any one of the midwives but I got to know quite a few of them.

When we all left the hospital about a week after the birth we dropped in on antenatal to say bye to all the staff. By that point I'd been in hospital for about a five weeks solid.

I choose to believe that men don't mean me harm unless I have reason to think otherwise.

I think it actually is a case of what you're used to.

Women elsewhere have obstetrical care from both male and female obstetricians.

The idea of comparatively poorly trained midwives (relative to what I would expect in a US midwife) would give me serious second thoughts about delivering in the UK, and I wouldn't care if they were male or female.

A male doctor came along - someone with a higher degree of medical training to identify and resolve the issue. A female doctor would likely have been the same.

While I personally have no problems with having a male midwife during any part of my care, I completely defend the right of any woman to have a preference and have that preference respected.

Incidentally im currently pregnant and was asked at 26 weeks ‘do you have any problems with a male midwife or a male doctor helping during your birth?’. She also said if I didn’t want to tell her that was fine and directed me towards the pregnancy notes app where I could enter my preference privately i wanted to.

When I last gave birth, I had both a male midwife and a male doctor. I also had a female student midwife and female senior midwife present and the only one who asked my consent to do things the whole way through was the male midwife. He also explained things that were happening to me as they happened when things got scary. He was excellent at his job. I understand though how his being male might be off putting to other women and he himself said he never gets offended when women don’t want a male midwife (we got chatted during the early stages) he just assumes they have their reasons and stick to the births with women who don’t mind either way.

The brilliant thing about women is we don’t all think and feel the same way, so I think banning men from being midwives is counterproductive when just on this thread, we can see the majority of women don’t really mind. I do think though we should retain and protect a woman’s right to refuse care from men not just in midwifery but any aspect of medicine.

I hope you never have reason to consider otherwise. Many many women do.

I wouldn’t say I prefer men, but my experiences with male consultants have been way better than with female consultants. My first examination when I was a teen was by a male gynaecologist and he was great. I didn’t have any male midwives nor saw any in any of my pregnancies.

A consultant at birth would not be there on his own. By the time a consultant is involved there would be a team of people in the room.

The issue lies in the specific role of a midwife. A lot of previous posters articulated it well when they spoke about the ongoing care and support, as well as the intimate examinations, that midwives specifically offer women, as opposed to consultants, who for the most part are purely medical. They therefore have a disproportionately large impact on the woman's experience during the entire process of childbirth.

It's also not necessarily just about women who have experienced/have concerns about sexual assault. Many just feel that that role is best filled by a woman - it's a concern felt by thousands of women and deserves to be respected whether they can offer an on-the-spot rationale or not.

Hang on - where does it say that 1/4 of women have been raped by men???!

But go on there, knock your socks off - just malign male HCPs working in a professional environment.

They just all want to get into your knickers!! 🙄

What an attitude...

I suppose I would respectfully disagree just because you could say the same about male nurses. Nurses are overwhelmingly female, and yet most of the same women who would object to a male midwife wouldn't object to a male nurse, despite it not being 'what they expect'.

I've been subjected to low level sexual assault quite a few times when I was young.

Still didn't leave me with the jaundiced mindset that all those bastard men out there mean me harm!!

Are you really so lacking in empathy that you cannot understand the trauma caused by men for rape victims?

I am sorry for you assaults. But Lucky you that you were not left feeling that way, other women may well feel unsafe around all men.

I wasn’t talking about the majority of your antenatal care, I was talking about mine. I merely said yours was unusual, which I believe it is. Your post seemed to imply that consultant care and midwife care are interchangeable - they are not. And yes, you specified antenatal care, but for the purposes of this thread it’s all care that matters. ‘Antenatal’ doesn’t even include birth itself fgs and arguably it is the birth and post-natal care that is most crucial in terms of vulnerability.

So are you telling me that for your first two pregnancies you didn’t see a single midwife before birth? Your consultant did all of the menial, time consuming little tasks themselves like taking measurements, blood tests, histories, CO discussing antenatal classes etc etc? They didn’t have a midwife assistant that did these things for them? And you’re in the UK?

Also, is midwifery even the kind of profession that would actually benefit from gender diversity given that women are the ones who give birth?

So should midwives be limited only to mothers who have been through childbirth?