Asking fathers permission to propose

[janfebmar87]

Inspired by another thread but not a thread about a thread.

I really feel this is out dated and perpetuates the narrative that women are the possession of men

If we ever want true equality then we need to put "traditions" like this to bed.

That's how I did it.
"so... Do we get married?" 😂

This has nothing to do with being brought up well or having manners. Just because something is tradition doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a good thing, especially when it’s rooted in patriarchy. Asking a father for his daughter’s hand in marriage was traditionally done when women were considered as property- first the property of the father, then the property of the husband. It was the exchange of property, just rooted in chauvinism and misogyny. There’s nothing romantic about continuing this kind of tradition. And if it wasn’t for the feminists you and I would still be seen as second class citizens, with Jack shit rights, only considered our husband’s property, and nothing more.

My sister's now husband did this, we thought it was rather sweet.

My DM (long divorced) was annoyed DH didn't ask HER for permission and even put it in a letter! Never understood her mind set!

It wasn't really like that for us.

It wasn't one conversation, more a series of conversations over a long period of time about how we felt about each other, what was important, did we want to get married eventually, when/how.

It really wasn't like one of us said "shall we get married?" kneeling aside.

Same here - it was a discussion between us about our future. No manufactured event.

My very posh, traditional BIL asked my dad before proposing to my sister. My dad said it was nothing to do with him and that his daughters could do as they pleased! In a nice way of course.

He also declined to walk my sister down the aisle (civil wedding) so I got to do it and was over the moon 😊!

My partner didn't ask my parents but there was also no 'real' proposal. One morning we started talking about marriage and decided that yes, we would like to get married. We then phoned our parents to tell them the news. It was very nice to be able to share that news with my parents first hand, and I would have possibly been a bit miffed if they already knew that it was on the cards.

Good for your dad.

But @kiraric one of you must ah e eventually used the word marriage. That was the proposal. Whoever it came from, however long the conversation was, a proposal is simply the suggestion of getting married.

My Dad would have laughed at DH if he'd asked, and rightly said 'no' as he clearly didn't know his daughter well enough to think I'd be okay with being considered anyone's property.

Thankfully DH does not think that way. The only person's permission he needed was mine, if permission is even the right word as it's only asking.

I don't understand friends who proudly tell me their husbands asked their fathers' permission because it's 'tradition'. It's a tradition from women had few rights and were considered property of whichever man they 'belonged' to.

CBA to find the post to quote but this is not about 'man bashing'.
It's about wanting to get rid of the last vestiges of a horribly sexist understanding of marriage partnerships. It's an anachronism which really isn't very nice at all if you think about it.

How can your fiancée promise to make you happy? That seems like putting a lot of strain on a marriage before if even starts.

You make yourself happy

That is a real proposal. Someone said shall we marry (or whatever) and the other said yes. Proposal of marriage.

Because by the time he proposed he’d already had the conversation with them. It didn’t need to happen twice 🙄

Why go mad?

Because discovering your possible future spouse subscribes to such sexist, outdated bollocks would be quite a suprise to many of us.

We have never shown an objection to the idea like we haven't shown objections to primogeniture, smoking indoors or classroom whippings.

I honestly don't understand where 'respect' fits in with this. Why does it show 'respect' for a man to ask his partners parents (Dad!) if he can propose? How does differ from old fashioned patriarchy? Respect for tradition? A deeply sexist tradition left over from the days when marriage involved a woman being exchanged for financial dynasty building?

Talk about being happy to join the family etc, lovely, but in a close family an engaged couple already have family support for the relationship. In a toxic/ non functioning family they are best to keep their distance and especially not pander to the idea of permission or respect or other status plays.

My parents married against the wishes of one set of parents, and were together over 50 years, till death did them part. They always said they would never interfere in their children’s relationship choices, and supported us through thick and thin. If my DH had asked my dad’s permission, like others have said in this thread, my dad would’ve said ‘What are you asking me for?’ Anyway, there was no proposal as such - we just gradually went from talking about ‘if we get married’ to ‘when we get married’, and then thought we’d better set a date and tell people.
And no, I didn’t change my surname on marrying either! (dad less understanding about that….)

gosh this thread is an eye opener.

So the tradition is from times when women were seen as property.
As was pointed out on another thread elsewhere on the site yesterday within my lifetime:

women have been allowed to have their own bank account
stopped being automatically fired when they got married
were allowed to take out a mortgage/loan without a man's countersignature
rape in marriage was made illegal

so for sure, keep your traditions and whine on about how he won't propose to you despite being together 20 years, having a house, a business and 6 kids...

If my DH had given ANY indication that he was going to ask my dad (or even give my dad a "heads up") i would probably have refused. But my dad would have laughed at him and said "nope, you can't marry someone if you don't know them well enough to know that this is something she absolutely disapproves of"

ETA
I honestly don't understand where 'respect' fits in with this.

It certainly shows a lack of respect of the woman you want to marry

@Parker231 🤣 of course not. though my future in-laws knew already what was happenening as had been told over the phone (they live abroad) what he'd planned to do with my dad. Partner proposed while we were on holiday and I video called my parents and my in-laws the day after we got engaged to let them know and they were made up for us and excited to be getting a DIL.

At the end of the day, it's obvious from this thread, asking a father's permission is loved or hated. I love it and was so happy he asked as I know it would mean alot to my dad. You don't need to be so hostile to women who actually appreciate the sentiment 😝

Read @Brefugee’s post immediately above.

It's respect for the aspiring head of a new household to the existing one, of course.
And disrespect for all the women.

Yes and he also makes me happy! My parents are elderly, my first marriage didn't last and they do worry about me sometimes. My STBDH parents are both dead and he felt it was the right thing to do. I know he wishes I could have met them. We'd already discussed getting married and agreed we both wanted to.

I don't think it's about asking 'permission'. It's about showing respect and saying that they are intending to propose. My DH spoke to both my parents his plans and that meant a lot to me that he had, and I know my parents really respected that he had too...