Caused a scene in a cafe today. Now wondering if we were unreasonable

[pennytoffees]

I'll start off by saying I'm welsh, born and bred and speak the language as does my entire family.

We visited (my mother and I) a local cafe today and had such an awful experience. We haven't been there in years but don't remember it being that bad. We don't sound welsh and spoke to them in English so they obviously assumed that we were tourists. They were very cold towards us.

Anyway, we placed our order and another staff member brought the food over to us. We asked for some sauces to which she replied "go and ask her" and then pointed to the woman at the till. There was a queue and we didn't want the food to go cold so asked her if she could get us some. She gave me a filthy look but reluctantly handed them over. I just want to add that at no point did she say that the sauces cost extra so we just presumed that they were free like most cafes/restaurants. It turns out that they weren't (to be honest I think it's pretty greedy charging customers for sachets of sauce when they've spent £14 on a meal and I don't know any other local businesses that do it but thats another argument). We would have paid with no issues had she explained that to us.

The main issue is that she came over to a couple sat behind us and started talking about us in Welsh thinking that we didn't understand. Funnily enough they asked for some sauces and she gave them for free but when we asked it was an issue. The only difference is they were clearly locals. At this point we'd had enough so I asked to speak with the manager and she asked me "why, is there a problem?". I said "yes but I'm not discussing it with you". Anyway, he came over and I explained what had happened. She was on the other side of the counter and came over and said "I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about you". She wasn't close enough to hear us talking so obviously knew what she had done wrong and was just trying to cover her tracks.

He apologised and we left it at that, didn't even finish our food as we felt so uncomfortable. To be honest I don't think he knew what to do but after reading the reviews online, it's clearly a regular occurrence and he doesn't care how his staff behaves or treats customers. It was embarrassing as everyone was looking at us. We don't like confrontation or causing trouble but felt we had to confront her. I believe we would have been treated differently had they known we were welsh. I was actually embarrassed to be welsh to be honest. They forget it's the tourists keeping them in business.

AIBU? Would you have confronted her or just walked away?

I grew up in a small village in a rural location in England (North Lincolnshire.) While I was still at primary school a new family moved in to the village. The parents were Welsh though none of their three children sounded or spoke Welsh.

Both parents were completely fluent in English but in certain social situations would still speak Welsh to each other, which frankly seemed rude.

I was once invited to their eldest daughter's birthday party. During the party the parents conversed in Welsh much of the time. At 10, I was probably the oldest child there and I felt a bit uncomfortable that the parents were basically speaking in a "secret" language.

And yes, I can imagine the comments, "Oh how dare they speak their own language in their own home!" But they had a house full of invited guests who didn't speak a word of Welsh, they both spoke English fluently, so to carry on a conversation in Welsh did seem rude.

Yes, I would definitely have confronted her. I would also have given an exceptionally bad review of the cafe online.

I went to university in Bangor but dropped out after a year as the locals (inc the uni staff) were so vicious. It made for a horrible environment.

No of course it doesn't mean OP has to speak Welsh I just find it odd that she chose not to, as do other posters. If OP had been visiting our part of Wales, it would seem much less odd.

This thread has attracted the Welsh bashers too, which is sad.

Had this in France. Shop assistant made a derogatory comment to a French customer whilst glancing in my direction. (Been talking to dh in English so knew I was English)

I could at the time speak French well enough to understand what she said.

She immediately knew by the look on my face I understood exactly what she had said and never had such amazing customer service.

I just knew it would be Gwynedd or Anglesey. We're in Conwy too. I've been hearing these complaints for decades. They're just ignorant. We always say a few words in Welsh to head them off sigh ..

@Peradventure55 well it's true so what else can I say 🤷🏼‍♀️

Historical context. It's within the living memory of many Welsh people that we drowned their villages to create reservoirs for Liverpool and Birmingham; that people's grandparents were beaten for speaking Welsh at school. This is fairly recent history. It's not that long ago in the scheme of things. And it doesn't help when the English keep churning out this old cliché that the Welsh all "switch to speaking Welsh" when English people arrive. It's so bloody arrogant to assume that.

But what was it that she was saying about you?

Can you tell us what the waitress said 🤔

I have a really strong feeling this thread may end up getting zapped.

Nos da.

Not even all of north Wales, if you're from the counties of Conwy, Denbighshire, Flintshire, Wrexham, you can get the cold shoulder in certain establishments.

The Polish I work with do this all day long, I agree with you it’s pathetic.

But Welsh was their first language. If you and your husband moved to France, both speaking French as a second language but still spoke in English to each other, would you be ‘rude’? There something about speaking Welsh that seems to really grate a few English people. Like there is this underlying anger that the language will not piss off for their convenience and it’s somehow silly that Wales won’t just fold and just see themselves as an extension for England.

Do you really think it’s strange ?

In north wales people are bilingual.

In most of Spain only Spanish is spoken.

It's not that, it's when they insult non Welsh speakers thinking they aren't understood that grates on others.

How do you know they are using their language to be mean about you? Do you speak fluent Polish? Or are they simply communicating with each other in their native language? As you would surely don't you worked with an English colleague abroad.

I don’t think that is the case.

If, using your example, a bilingual English couple invited a non English speaking French child round then yes it would be rude of them to speak in English when they could speak French.

• do if you worked with an English colleague abroad

That’s not the context of the post I was replying to though, is it. And again, I find it very difficult to believe the situation as it happened in the op, certainly that the cafe workers did not at any point pick up the op was possibly Welsh. This whole thread feels like xenophobia baiting and even if it wasn’t it’s certainly what it’s become.

I have heard this exact same story several times over the years (Welsh speakers slagging off non-Welsh speakers in cafes etc) always thought it was just an urban myth/cliche but clearly it isn't! Must not be great for the tourist industry!

But a lot of English people think Welsh speakers are rude just for speaking Welsh to each other when they can speak English.

I've known Welsh people who don't "sound Welsh" but still understand a reasonable amount of Welsh due to schooling, even if they don't use the language regularly.

If I had invited a house full of my French neighbours to a party, and I could speak fluent French (obviously well enough to hold down a job there) then, no, I would not consider it polite to hold a lengthy conversation with my DH in English.

I think it’s just this small area of wales that is notorious.

certainly not the whole of wales or all Welsh people