Caused a scene in a cafe today. Now wondering if we were unreasonable

[pennytoffees]

I'll start off by saying I'm welsh, born and bred and speak the language as does my entire family.

We visited (my mother and I) a local cafe today and had such an awful experience. We haven't been there in years but don't remember it being that bad. We don't sound welsh and spoke to them in English so they obviously assumed that we were tourists. They were very cold towards us.

Anyway, we placed our order and another staff member brought the food over to us. We asked for some sauces to which she replied "go and ask her" and then pointed to the woman at the till. There was a queue and we didn't want the food to go cold so asked her if she could get us some. She gave me a filthy look but reluctantly handed them over. I just want to add that at no point did she say that the sauces cost extra so we just presumed that they were free like most cafes/restaurants. It turns out that they weren't (to be honest I think it's pretty greedy charging customers for sachets of sauce when they've spent £14 on a meal and I don't know any other local businesses that do it but thats another argument). We would have paid with no issues had she explained that to us.

The main issue is that she came over to a couple sat behind us and started talking about us in Welsh thinking that we didn't understand. Funnily enough they asked for some sauces and she gave them for free but when we asked it was an issue. The only difference is they were clearly locals. At this point we'd had enough so I asked to speak with the manager and she asked me "why, is there a problem?". I said "yes but I'm not discussing it with you". Anyway, he came over and I explained what had happened. She was on the other side of the counter and came over and said "I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about you". She wasn't close enough to hear us talking so obviously knew what she had done wrong and was just trying to cover her tracks.

He apologised and we left it at that, didn't even finish our food as we felt so uncomfortable. To be honest I don't think he knew what to do but after reading the reviews online, it's clearly a regular occurrence and he doesn't care how his staff behaves or treats customers. It was embarrassing as everyone was looking at us. We don't like confrontation or causing trouble but felt we had to confront her. I believe we would have been treated differently had they known we were welsh. I was actually embarrassed to be welsh to be honest. They forget it's the tourists keeping them in business.

AIBU? Would you have confronted her or just walked away?

Oh wow.

the waitress knew the locals. Perhaps she is good friends with them/they’re frequent customers/they already paid and the waitress had forgotten the sauces

OP has done a massive reach and decided it’s because she was speaking English.

you can’t seriously compare it to racism towards black people. Are you on a wind up?

As previously said, maybe they had paid but they weren’t on their tray. Or maybe it would have seemed very unfair to have given the op the freebies then not done the same for regulars who bring in more consistent money. The op had been given free sauces because she had refused to get up to the till for them like she was pointed to do. She can’t be surprised the waitress was put out (in more than one way) and you certainly can’t cry racism about the situation. Imagine being demanding then being full of shock and hurt to find people find you demanding…

Yes -I'm aware of that - I didn't want my post to become a history lecture!

But that's not the point. The point is: why persecute English people today because of something their ancestors (or rather, their governments) did historically? It makes no sense to me at all! For a start, it's small-minded and stupid, and secondly - where would this end, if we all took that approach?

Should we be mean to the Germans? The French because of Napoleon? The Scandinavians because the Vikings nailed babies to church doors?

And for those saying they think the OP is lying - that's so desperate. The post has the ring of truth, to me - since I've experienced similar situations.

I was in the area of France around Verdun some years ago and went into a shop. The lady was quite cold until she suddently said "Are you English? Oh sorry, I thought you were German!" When I confirmed this, her mood brightened and she was lovely. I guess my awful French accent must have sounded German to her. Now, I'm not defending this - it's just what the English here are complaining about in Wales - but it was an area which has suffered terribly in the First World War, and the pain of that had gone very deep. Not really on, though, if your work is tourist-facing.

So - I get why historically the Welsh resent the English. But that's history, surely? Can we not move on? If people in Wales hate the English so much, then please, please find work which keeps you away from them. If you're in the tourist biz, please grow up and be civil.

Was it Sgram in Glanrafon?, @pennytoffees .
I'd be careful going in there. The manager can be cross and the waiting staff member can talk the hind legs off a donkey.

@CoffeeCantata , the OP isn't English.
It was a Welsh person perceiving herself to have been treated differently by another Welsh person who hadn't realised that the OP was Welsh.

Oh - as a ps, my ancestry is almost entirely Welsh, ironically. I was brought up on the Gwynedd/Cheshire border.

I say that only to emphasise just how utterly brainless it is to persecute and discriminate against random tourists. By a sheer accident, I speak English with a posh accent, though. Possibly if I did a DNA test, and showed it in some shops, I'd get better treatment?

I'm just trying to point out the utter illogicality of being mean to 'English' tourists and thinking you have the moral right to do so.

Not an unreasonable assumption, given the OP chose to speak English to them, even though she is fluent in Welsh.

@CoffeeCantata , Whereabouts on the fictional Gwynedd/Cheshire border exactly?

The point is: why persecute English people today because of something their ancestors (or rather, their governments) did historically?

Ancestors? There are plenty of English individuals today who are utterly disrespectful of Wales, its language and culture. Anything from micro aggression to full blown deconstruction of Welsh communities. Just read this thread to see how many English people believe their comfort of hearing their own language is more important than the local people speaking theirs, the narrative being spread that they must only be speaking Welsh to make a point to any English walking in. People are baying for blood and the possible huge loss of business for this cafe based on a nothing situation.

Let’s not pretend that it’s the Welsh refusing the let bygones be bygones. It’s happening now, there are still huge issues about disrespect of the Welsh language.

Where is the Gwynedd/Cheshire border? First the op gets spoken to rudely and now her entire county has been wiped out by Gwynedd. Not a great few days…

Not only OP's county, but a few others too.

The OP's story doesn't make sense and is more than likely made up to cause division and hatred between English people and Welsh speakers.

It is unlikely that as the Welsh speaker, living in Wales she claims to be that she would pose as an English tourist in a Welsh language stronghold, where 70% (as high as 85% in some areas) of residents speak Welsh, where she claims to have (presumably) Welsh speaking family and in a café where she claims Welsh speakers get preferential treatment, unless for some bizarre reason she wanted to catch Welsh speakers badmouthing her.

She also contradicts herself by describing the café as "local" in her original post, but later reveals she lives in Conwy and the café is on Anglesey. Depending on which bit of Conwy she lives and where the café is on Anglesey, it could be anything from 30 to 50 miles away. Hardly "local".

I live on Anglesey and speak Welsh and English. With such a high proportion of first language Welsh speakers and many incomers (most from England) learning to speak Welsh, literally anyone walking through a café door could potentially have some knowledge of Welsh.

It is therefore, highly unlikely that any business is going to take the risk of using the Welsh language to abuse their customers.

Our cafés depend on tourists. Without them most wouldn't be sustainable. The money they make during high season ensures they can continue to trade during the Winter months. Most people understand that.

On Anglesey it is is in absolutely no one's interests to discourage tourists.

I’ve holidayed in Wales twice, two awful experiences. The first where I was warned that as a woman I should not go into pub and order alone! I thought that was outrageous but was surrounded by rugby playing men who jeered and egged each other on to manhandle me till I was rescued by male friends. Then later as a young mother camping in anglesey I went to local grocers shop to buy provisions and was completely blanked. Till I had to leave empty handed. Nowhere else in the world have I been treated with such hostility.

I asked which cafe too, but @pennytoffees seems to be reluctant to share. Given she hasn't made any other posts apart from those on this thread under her current username to date, it wouldn't be outing to do so.

Flintshire, Denbighshire and Conwy. All gone... 😢

Where was the pub? How long ago?

That awful experience has nothing to do with them being Welsh and everything to do with them being men.

That's because the café only exists in OP's made up story.

@WedieieniaifaguarYnysMon , and Wrecsam.

@foxandbee , it has to be Sgram. I'd leave them a bad review on TripAdvisor.

** Sgram is a fictional cafe in a fictional town in a fictional drama. Like the one in the OP.

Re the pub, that happened to you It’s not unusual for there to be obnoxious drunks in pubs in touristy areas during the holiday season. Could just as easily have happened in Cornwall. Not a reason to write off an entire country.

Re the shop, what exactly happened? you took a basket of shopping to the counter and they refused to engage with you at all?

I am really pissed off MN has not deleted this thread. Its purpose was clearly to bring out the Welsh haters.

The new border pp invented is hilarious. I guess she is frantically consulting a map and will be back with some sort of excuse.

Meant to put “sorry” in first sentence.

They were playing rugby in the pub? How odd!

I have done something similar as a Welsh speaker who was brought up in England- I sound English. It’s so bloody rude.

There was a pub in my village that I wouldn’t go into as a local, was notorious for horrible men of all ages and huge coke culture. Often had lock-ins where things got even more rowdy. I knew a woman who was sexually assaulted by the manager there during one of these times, so yes I would absolutely warn a woman local or tourist not to set foot in there. I don’t think it’s a Welsh pub problem, I’m sure there’s many a no-go pub in England for similar reasons.