Caused a scene in a cafe today. Now wondering if we were unreasonable

[pennytoffees]

I'll start off by saying I'm welsh, born and bred and speak the language as does my entire family.

We visited (my mother and I) a local cafe today and had such an awful experience. We haven't been there in years but don't remember it being that bad. We don't sound welsh and spoke to them in English so they obviously assumed that we were tourists. They were very cold towards us.

Anyway, we placed our order and another staff member brought the food over to us. We asked for some sauces to which she replied "go and ask her" and then pointed to the woman at the till. There was a queue and we didn't want the food to go cold so asked her if she could get us some. She gave me a filthy look but reluctantly handed them over. I just want to add that at no point did she say that the sauces cost extra so we just presumed that they were free like most cafes/restaurants. It turns out that they weren't (to be honest I think it's pretty greedy charging customers for sachets of sauce when they've spent £14 on a meal and I don't know any other local businesses that do it but thats another argument). We would have paid with no issues had she explained that to us.

The main issue is that she came over to a couple sat behind us and started talking about us in Welsh thinking that we didn't understand. Funnily enough they asked for some sauces and she gave them for free but when we asked it was an issue. The only difference is they were clearly locals. At this point we'd had enough so I asked to speak with the manager and she asked me "why, is there a problem?". I said "yes but I'm not discussing it with you". Anyway, he came over and I explained what had happened. She was on the other side of the counter and came over and said "I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about you". She wasn't close enough to hear us talking so obviously knew what she had done wrong and was just trying to cover her tracks.

He apologised and we left it at that, didn't even finish our food as we felt so uncomfortable. To be honest I don't think he knew what to do but after reading the reviews online, it's clearly a regular occurrence and he doesn't care how his staff behaves or treats customers. It was embarrassing as everyone was looking at us. We don't like confrontation or causing trouble but felt we had to confront her. I believe we would have been treated differently had they known we were welsh. I was actually embarrassed to be welsh to be honest. They forget it's the tourists keeping them in business.

AIBU? Would you have confronted her or just walked away?

Mae fel y hen stori "Mi wnes i cerdded mewn dafarn yng Nghymru a phawb yn stopio siarad Saeseg a dechrau siarad Cymraeg".

Sbwriel.

people from all over the world come to Wales and have a great time. I highly suspect this story is made up. We are a welcoming friendly people for the most part. If the (very suspect) experience of one person is enough to put you off then that’s a bit short sighted

this is such an old trope about Welsh people "switching" to Welsh when english people come in. It's such offensive bollocks. How on earth would it happen? What you will probably find, frequently, is people in mixed friendship groups switching between Welsh and English constantly depending on who they're talking to, it's so so common as not everyone who understands Welsh chooses to speak it.

Gymaint o gelwyddau wedi ei hysgrifennu drost yr edefyn. Does yna dim cymuned fel Ynys Mon, dim ots pwy ydach chi. Ond pobol sy’n meddwyl bod nhw’n pwysig pwysig sy’n cael amser anodd.

totally agree - this sounds like nonsense to me, and in Anglesey, the staff in the cafe wouldn't assume that anyone entering their cafe would have NO CHANCE of speaking Welsh, even if they did have an English access, given that Welsh is fairly widely spoken in Anglesey. The other customers would also find it incredibly weird and rude that they'd speak to them IN WELSH about you, given that Anglesey is very very touristy

cytuno'n llwyr

They speak welsh because that’s what they speak even when you aren’t there.
In linguistic terms people actually find it very hard to switch the language they are used to communicating in, so they aren’t switching, they’re just…welsh

It’s disappointing that someone would make such a sweeping statement. Why not visit yourself and form your own opinion? It’s also strange that the original poster has stirred up this controversy and then chosen not to return to offer further insights or defend their country/ heritage/language against the criticism that’s followed on from her ridiculous original post. A Welsh person who chose not to speak welsh and doesn’t mind her language and culture being lambasted online. Interesting…!

I stayed there many with my ex who is very cockney, but my children and I are welsh speakers. He never had an issue

Can I ask this question? Why do you and others insist on saying going on holiday to Wales or I've been to Wales" when no-one in Wales says "I'm going on holiday to England or I've been to England"? We say we are going to London, Bristol, Birmingham for example. That's the problem, Wales is lots of different towns and a few cities. To decide you don't want to visit a whole country because someone had a rude experience in a cafe in Anglesey, an island in North Wales is just plain silly.

Our local Lidl is a stop off point for overseas tourists wanting food etc for camping, caravanning etc. I hear lots of different languages spoken in there. Lidl really is international.

A few years ago pre COVID was a huge effort hosting Japan. Conwy was bedecked with the flag of Japan. We had a lot of Japanese visitors, delegates from Japan were hosted in a local hotel. Taken sightseeing all over. Wined and dined. The tourists did come all that way to enjoy themselves.

We really need to do something again to promote our beautiful principality.

You can buy Welsh language t shirts and bags with "this text was in English until you walked in" on them. I own a rather lovely tote with it on. Roedd y testun hwn yn Saesneg cyn I chi cerdded I mewn, I think it is.

Is the OP coming back or have they gone to learn some Welsh?

Dw i'n cytuno.

Ynys Môn ydy’r lle gorau yn y byd. Dyna pam mae llawer o bobl yn dŵad yn ôl am wyliau flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn.

Sorry @KimberleyClark I'm afraid I'm not Welsh speaking. My mum and her family all were and I am very good at watching TV, listening to speeches and singing in languages I don't understand (DDad also spoke a language we kids didn't so my singing etc wasn't limited to Welsh). Pobol y Cwm was a regular at my aunt's house.

Funnily enough, tourists won’t visit and spend their money where they’re made to feel unwelcome.
So enjoy your cafes and bars devoid of tourists.. . . . while they last.

@KimberleyClark I've just translated it (I am learning new skills here ) it was many years ago - 1990s is my best guess. I'll try googling it. IIRC simply shaming the staff was his revenge - I think he was pissed off at the rotten treatment as well

I don’t understand why people get mad that people speak their language in their own country.

I like it. Adds to the holiday feel. First thing we see after the welcome sign is always ARAF on the roads get so sad when it changes back as we leave 😅 one of the few Welsh words I know lol

Mae fy ngŵr yn Gymro. Nid yw'n hoff iawn o'r Saeson ond cafodd anlwc oherwydd priododd un!!
I had to use Google translate to type that as you can tell.

'D yw'r OP ddim wedi postio o'r blaen. Edefyn arall yn llawn o gasineb tuag at y Cymry. Gadewch i'r cymedrolwyr wybod. Diolch.

I was born and spent most of my childhood in Pembs and was told I ‘didn’t count’ as a Welsh person while in a (really lovely, actually) restaurant on Ynys Môn a few years ago, too. It’s not just the English they don’t like.

I don’t think it’s fair for people to say they don’t understand why the Welsh, Scots and Irish dislike the English, though. There’s a thousand years of evidence for it…

We had this one year on holiday. We all speak English, my bro and I were born here and have an English father. However my mum and aunt are from a small town in the south of Holland, though they’d been living in England for over 20 years at that point. Four Dutch lads - late teens, early twenties, took the sunbeds behind us every day for two weeks. Talked the absolute worst trash about every female on the beach from morning to night. Awful stuff. In what they thought was a dead language, Limburgse, that virtually no-one knows, especially not on a beach in Spain. We waited for their last day and then my aunt shouted out from the bar in Limburgse, “Do you guys want an ice cream?”, and we had a back and forth for a few minutes about flavours/drinks etc. The horror on those lads’ faces was the most satisfying thing.

I’d have done the same thing here - eaten my food, smiled and at the end, gone over to the cow and said in Welsh, “Thanks so much for all your help, I’ll be sure to leave you an accurate review when I get back home to Conwy.” And then walked out. And left a bad review on every platform.

We got treated like crap in a little cafe in a petting farm on Anglesey, the staff were really rude, about two years ago. Wonder if it's the same place.

Unwelcoming because you won’t get sauce packets yourself. Sod the 20mph speed limit, this is the real tourism killer. Better make sure the councils know, invest in condiments before the whole Welsh economy crashes!!

Some corkers on this thread such as

I honestly don’t get the attraction of Wales granted from a poster who often writes shit, but nevertheless, OP 👏

Ingenious way to get folk bashing an entire nation and its people. I am curious though, as you feel you being a Welsh speaker isn't of consequence because it was their rudeness that prompted this post. Would you have come here to complain about the same experience in Cornwall or Skegness?

Or is it just because it is Wales and you can speak Welsh but didn't want to speak Welsh...in Wales.... ?