Caused a scene in a cafe today. Now wondering if we were unreasonable

[pennytoffees]

I'll start off by saying I'm welsh, born and bred and speak the language as does my entire family.

We visited (my mother and I) a local cafe today and had such an awful experience. We haven't been there in years but don't remember it being that bad. We don't sound welsh and spoke to them in English so they obviously assumed that we were tourists. They were very cold towards us.

Anyway, we placed our order and another staff member brought the food over to us. We asked for some sauces to which she replied "go and ask her" and then pointed to the woman at the till. There was a queue and we didn't want the food to go cold so asked her if she could get us some. She gave me a filthy look but reluctantly handed them over. I just want to add that at no point did she say that the sauces cost extra so we just presumed that they were free like most cafes/restaurants. It turns out that they weren't (to be honest I think it's pretty greedy charging customers for sachets of sauce when they've spent £14 on a meal and I don't know any other local businesses that do it but thats another argument). We would have paid with no issues had she explained that to us.

The main issue is that she came over to a couple sat behind us and started talking about us in Welsh thinking that we didn't understand. Funnily enough they asked for some sauces and she gave them for free but when we asked it was an issue. The only difference is they were clearly locals. At this point we'd had enough so I asked to speak with the manager and she asked me "why, is there a problem?". I said "yes but I'm not discussing it with you". Anyway, he came over and I explained what had happened. She was on the other side of the counter and came over and said "I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about you". She wasn't close enough to hear us talking so obviously knew what she had done wrong and was just trying to cover her tracks.

He apologised and we left it at that, didn't even finish our food as we felt so uncomfortable. To be honest I don't think he knew what to do but after reading the reviews online, it's clearly a regular occurrence and he doesn't care how his staff behaves or treats customers. It was embarrassing as everyone was looking at us. We don't like confrontation or causing trouble but felt we had to confront her. I believe we would have been treated differently had they known we were welsh. I was actually embarrassed to be welsh to be honest. They forget it's the tourists keeping them in business.

AIBU? Would you have confronted her or just walked away?

English but have lived in N Wales including on Anglesey. I can't vouch for every born and bred N Wales Welsh speaker of course, but the overwhelming majority that I've known have had a Welsh accent when speaking English (why wouldn't they?)

They've also in my experience been very kind to English people mangling their beautiful language, as I think it's usually recognised that at least it's a bit of an attempt to recognise their culture and heritage, unlike this thread which has predictably been Bash The Welsh.

The fact you are still trying to compare your feelings of not fitting in in Wales compared to genuine racism says far more about you than it does about me. And you also know nothing about my own background, which makes your strop even more ridiculous.

I do know that whilst there are genuine reasons for discontentment in Welsh communities, I have never known anyone to say ‘I hate English people’ with no further context other than the fact they are English. Everyone is welcomed, what usually causes anger is when people move to the area who instantly sniff at the fact the language is still spoken, taught equally to English in schools and is used in every professional capacity from shop work to the NHS. The Welsh people - especially those in Gwynedd and on Anglesey - shouldnt have to change to accommodate just because the culture makes other people uncomfortable.

Genuinely horrified by some of the comments on this thread towards us (the Welsh) and my home area (North Wales). Totally offensive, depressing and ignorant. And the arrogance of people assuming we switch to Welsh when they walk in- I mean why would we? We are first language Welsh- we have fully Welsh conversations that were already in Welsh before a random English person walked through the door and made us decide to switch to Welsh. It's laughable that people think that's such a thing. Our language isn't a weird weapon we use to wield against the English. It's a living thing that flows through our conversations, thoughts and lives. It's only just living though because we've had to fight tooth and nail to keep it going. This thread makes me wonder why we bothered as apparently us daring to speak it is so hideously offensive. People could really do with learning that English isn't the only native language of the British Isles. People could also do with learning a bit of (relatively recent) history.

Genuinely hurt by some of the things that have been said on this totally Welsh bashing thread. What a horrible thread.

My thoughts exactly. I have asked MN to remove it, but nothing yet.

Same. It’s such a xenophobic thread towards Welsh people and our language. Can’t believe it’s still going

I genuinely think this has just been posted to purposely create a Welsh bashing thread. I just can’t believe OP that you would really be that outraged at a Welsh waitress saying to her Welsh friend in Welsh that you thought the sauces were free that you then needed to post a thread about it. It’s absolutely ridiculous that you would create a thread about such a non event. It’s been the perfect opportunity for so many people to come and spout their xenophobic views about the Welsh country and language. Really horrible and unnecessary thread.

It shouldn’t matter if you’re Welsh or not, if the staff are being rude to people who they don’t think are Welsh then that’s discrimination, and racism. And shit service. If I get the feel that the service is going to be terrible I just walk out. I don’t think you made a scene, unless you happened to be rude in some way that you didn’t mention in the OP.

I had Welsh people say “I hate English people” when I lived in wales. Just because you never heard it doesn’t mean it never happens.

So if people have an experience that is proWelsh they aren't allowed to share it? Ridiculous. OP is allowed to share her experience.

I'm not so sure about that. I was in Gran Canaria a few months ago, and many hotel and restaurant staff assumed I was German. When I spoke in English the hostility vanished immediately.

I understand the intention behind sharing a personal experience, but have you read the whole thread? It’s full of unnecessary, vile comments about the Welsh, and it’s clear from the number of us here that many Welsh people are genuinely hurt by this.

All of this over one rude waitress who happened to be speaking Welsh and a conversation about HP sauce! Was it really worth opening a thread, knowing it would invite such negativity and reinforce harmful opinions? ‘The welsh hate the english’, how funny - when i’ve married an Englishman! Hurry up MN and take this thread down!!

Did you read the comment of the person to whom I was replying? "I genuinely think this has just been posted to purposely create a Welsh bashing thread. I just can’t believe OP that you would really be that outraged at a Welsh waitress saying to her Welsh friend in Welsh that you thought the sauces were free that you then needed to post a thread about it. It’s absolutely ridiculous that you would create a thread about such a non event."

I was in North Wales on holiday in October. Everyone we met was lovely and we had no issues. In fact, we've booked to go back. We're Scottish but definitely don't speak any Welsh and no-one made us feel uncomfortable.

People on here are bonkers! The op didn't start this thread as anti Welsh, she started it as anti being rude to paying customers !!
Some ppl have added unhelpful comments or verbally attacked the op banging on and being snide.
Report the snide comments not the thread.

Again you’ve provided no context and I will continue to disbelieve this was said in some random announcement.

The whole incident in the op is barely worth a complaint. The undertone of the post is very much a ‘gotcha’ - there’s already many non-Welsh people who are paranoid that they’re being spoken about (or the language ‘deliberately’ being changed to Welsh when they walk in), this whole thread seems to be saying ‘see, they really are talking about what they assume to be English people behind their backs, you’re quite right to show irritation at Welsh people speaking Welsh around you’.

Since Brexit & COVID/zoom English people have been moving to north Wales and pushing up house prices so last bastion of Welsh speaking is under threat. Welsh language is beautiful and should be celebrated.

If you've got a posh accent you are aping upper class rich people who would be able to afford to pay extra for sauce. You adopted the accent to be treated as one of them so you shouldn't be surprised if you are treated that way

I'd have done the same.

Yeah some people have real saviour complexes.

I don’t see how this is a Welsh bashing thread. Seems a reasonable account of what happened.

You did the right thing and complained but honestly OP Wales has been one of the most unfriendly places I ever went as a tourist, lots of attitude problems like this and rudeness. Cafes where we were made to feel unwelcome. One Italian place in Tenby near the harbour which begins with an F which I don't know how it's still going if you look at the negative reviews on trip adviser (purely trading on it's location!), has some horrid horrid staff...but they only direct their hate at families with little children! Very weird, why not say you are not a family restaurant then and we wouldn't have bothered? Shame as Wales is a beautiful country and it makes you think twice going back.

I am not surprised at all if they thought you were tourists that you were ill treated. Don't get me wrong there were some lovely people too, but I was shocked at some of the open hostility and we are just a very average family, not loud or anything like that and we teach our kids to respect others. It's not just Wales though, I've encountered this sort of thing in Cornwall too, although much less. It's a sort of anti tourist mentality..even when jobs depend on it! How dare you ask for sauce eh Op? What an unrealistic thing to expect in a restaurant serving food!

Oh thanks ! The course was actually really good but it just felt like a very hostile environment.

In north wales this seems par for the course, but not right. I have a friend with a Midlands accent now but born in wales and went to Welsh medium school, he's fluent in other words and calls people out for this went he visits - his wife orders, he hears the bad mouthing and speaks to them in welsh!

I think given that I was born in Communist Czechoslovakia, the North Koreans would be friendlier 😂

I think you're experiencing what a lot of English people experience in Wales