Caused a scene in a cafe today. Now wondering if we were unreasonable

[pennytoffees]

I'll start off by saying I'm welsh, born and bred and speak the language as does my entire family.

We visited (my mother and I) a local cafe today and had such an awful experience. We haven't been there in years but don't remember it being that bad. We don't sound welsh and spoke to them in English so they obviously assumed that we were tourists. They were very cold towards us.

Anyway, we placed our order and another staff member brought the food over to us. We asked for some sauces to which she replied "go and ask her" and then pointed to the woman at the till. There was a queue and we didn't want the food to go cold so asked her if she could get us some. She gave me a filthy look but reluctantly handed them over. I just want to add that at no point did she say that the sauces cost extra so we just presumed that they were free like most cafes/restaurants. It turns out that they weren't (to be honest I think it's pretty greedy charging customers for sachets of sauce when they've spent £14 on a meal and I don't know any other local businesses that do it but thats another argument). We would have paid with no issues had she explained that to us.

The main issue is that she came over to a couple sat behind us and started talking about us in Welsh thinking that we didn't understand. Funnily enough they asked for some sauces and she gave them for free but when we asked it was an issue. The only difference is they were clearly locals. At this point we'd had enough so I asked to speak with the manager and she asked me "why, is there a problem?". I said "yes but I'm not discussing it with you". Anyway, he came over and I explained what had happened. She was on the other side of the counter and came over and said "I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about you". She wasn't close enough to hear us talking so obviously knew what she had done wrong and was just trying to cover her tracks.

He apologised and we left it at that, didn't even finish our food as we felt so uncomfortable. To be honest I don't think he knew what to do but after reading the reviews online, it's clearly a regular occurrence and he doesn't care how his staff behaves or treats customers. It was embarrassing as everyone was looking at us. We don't like confrontation or causing trouble but felt we had to confront her. I believe we would have been treated differently had they known we were welsh. I was actually embarrassed to be welsh to be honest. They forget it's the tourists keeping them in business.

AIBU? Would you have confronted her or just walked away?

Also OP- I was feeling bad for you that this particular person was so rude but they literally said that you didn’t know the sauce wasn’t free in Welsh to their Welsh friend? Seriously? It’s hardly the end of the world. You’ve literally started a thread that you knew would turn into a xenophobic Welsh bashing thread because someone said you had thought the sauces were free. Which you had. It’s a little bit rude maybe but it’s hardly slagging you off hugely in Welsh in front of you like you made out.

Bi/multilingualism is the norm in great swathes of the world but the many English are so hung up on the Welsh language. It’s laughable.

You did nothing wrong. I would leave a review online about my experience too.

I know everywhere have their own accents even Anglesey have their own Welsh accent and you can tell when they use English where they are from. But I have found that most of the rest of North Wales don't have a noticeable Welsh accent when using English, so people get a surprised look when out pops Welsh. Dd's high school was Welsh medium, the kids sounded English bar a few teachers kids from Anglesey.
She has been known to break into Welsh when we are out especially places like Caernarfon and Anglesey where you get judged for being English.

What like I have Auto correct and it's 7.15am ISH? ...I'm well aware it's Llyn and not pronounced with an L. My mother is a Welsh speaker I'm not, our family are from Denbigh your point is?

Exactly.....and a certain pub in Beddgelert.

Of course they don't but when you're with a Welsh speaker who tells you what was just said about you it's much simpler.

I have been going to North Wales for day trips and holidays for most of my (long) life and can say hand on heart I've never experienced anything like this. I've always found Welsh people to be very warm and friendly so it really saddens me to hear how badly you were treated in this instance. I absolutely do not think this is the norm and you were 100% right for calling out this abhorrent behaviour. Good for you op for speaking up. By the way being bilingual is brilliant and nobody but you gets to say what language you speak on any given day!

I doubt if they switch most people in North Wales, particularly, speak Welsh as the norm. The vibe is probably more that they stopped speaking as someone walked in then continued

It is amazingly ignorant and arrogant. Why would they? Welsh people speak Welsh to other Welsh people, there is no switching to English when people walk in, just carrying on in a language that you don't understand.

I'm really surprised by how long and nasty this thread is! But I live in a very touristy area in north Wales, visitor numbers are through the roof so I suppose we can afford to lose a few of the unpleasant ones!

Agree - charges for sauces a sign of extreme penny pinching which is a bad sign. Restaurant “eat the bird” charges for ketchup or mayo with fries. They serve a tiny pot … 4 of us eating could have bought a jumbo bottle of either for the extra charges. Needless to say …. We’ve never eaten there again.

Funny … they want you to remember the food … all I recall is the £1 for a tablespoon of ketchup

Indeed. I split my time between Wales and England, and have done for 60 years. Where I stay, if Welsh speakers want known non-Welsh speakers to be part of their conversation they switch to English. In the local pub there might be the odd private conversation in Welsh but, generally, everybody speaks English regardless of what they speak at home.

Language is a non-problem, although mangled pronunciation sometimes raises an eyebrow.

I have had this - am completely English but grew up in Wales - did welsh at school and can get the gist of a convo still years later. Had this many times and many times pulled people up in English making it clear I understood what was said. But there are die hards in all cultures - some of our flag waving English Louts can be just as awful

I’d have went further and not left untill the manager had told you how he was going to sort his staff out and you got a refund too .

I hate people /businesses like this

It's funny though because all the native Welsh speakers I know are from North Wales, and all have English accents when speaking English. The only Welsh people I know with Welsh accents are from the south, and they speak little to no Welsh. You really can't always tell where someone is from just by their accent.

That's a bit of a stretch. I'm merely pointing out that people saying the offenders "should have known" the OP spoke Welsh are incorrect. And as you point out it's risky to be rude about anyone in earshot in any language.

I have a North Wales accent myself, but I'm not fluent in Welsh - I speak a little and understand a bit more. My friends who are Welsh first language have the same accent as I do. It is different from the accent in Anglesey, although probably only a local can tell the difference.

If I walked into a Welsh speaking establishment and I could speak the language then I would. Why would you converse in English when the place isn't primarily English speaking? Anyway, I'm not surprised the Welsh hate the English. They've got every good reason under the sun to do so.

North Wales, sorry, is one of the most depressing and hostile places I ever visited.

Why is this the case? I’ve only been to wales once as a child. Do they somehow resent the English for something?

Me too, I have done it in the UK when people have been speaking a foreign language which I understand. Usually when they are slagging something or someone off!

not in my experience

I think so, and the non - English as well.
(I'm Czech, husband British).

Accent just means you live in that country or have grown up here.

There are plenty of "English" people who compete for eg Wales and Scotland but have very English accents.

Accentism is a very silly discriminatory behaviour.

Did you mean to go to North Wales but accidentally end up in North Korea?