To want to change careers because I miss my working class roots?

[LSCC]

I'm from a very working class background and working class family. Just generations and generations of working class. I was and still am the only one in my family to go to university and I've somehow gotten myself through the doors into a very middle class career. I'm just so unhappy there. Every conversation reminds me of how different I am. I have assimilated in some ways - the only reason I started travelling abroad was because I was sick of how often travel came up in conversation. Corporate DEI and how important a diverse workforce is, yet one of the first questions you'll be asked is what school you went to - expecting me to answer with some boarding school that they may have played a netball match or two with, rather than a local comprehensive that was rated 'needs improvement' by Ofsted. Being asked where I ski? Erm... I'm polite and friendly with colleagues obviously, but going from those kinds of conversations to back around my friends and family is such a culture shock.

I just don't think this kind of pretence is worth it anymore, and when I look back on the different jobs I've had the happiest ones have been when I have been surrounded by people with a similar background to me.

Does anyone else on here from a working class background struggle with this?

Examples being which jobs? Op also didn't mention what her job involves. Fair enough if you want to argue wealthier people can afford tutors so their children get better grades etc. But which jobs are people discriminated against for not going skiing or to boarding school.
Sorry if I sound dismissive but I got spat on and called a whore for being a young mum. I don't have much time for people claiming they felt left out because everyone else at their job went skiing. If anything wealthier people are more likely to be mocked because theres less of them and the way they speak. Not that anyone should pity them they're too busy living their best life to care. Honestly this is all such a non issue

I never felt my working class background until I started a PhD. Suddenly everyone was very clearly from a different walk of life to me. I felt insecure like I had wandered into a strange world. The choice was to just suck it up or leave. Same as with anything. I do get it though.

To be fair DD is at a Uni where there are a large amount of students who will ask WHERE you are going skiing rather than WHETHER you are going skiing at Christmas

That is still an assumption, given we do not know the OPs financial situation. She may not have hundreds of pounds to spend on opera and theatre tickets. Plenty of MC professionals don’t, given how expensive life is currently.

It can certainly happen - I think as class is more hidden looking for class signifiers can get more intense especially as PP says there's something that means you don't fit in some people's boxes.

I found it worst in education and early career other way as hadn't yet learnt how to deal with it. Though I've gone back to working class area and job - and education and career and lifestyle can equally be held against you there as well.

DH in very middle class area say it comes up less often but other's reaction can be jarring - he mentioned his dad was a builder - he's not embarrassed or ashamed by that at all - but it was treated like a conversation landmine by his immediate boss ironically someone who went on a lot about how classless our society was.

Rather than change profession try changing workplaces - or just find ways to brush it off or use it and maybe find outside pursuits that help you feel more connected or just give you a wider perspective.

This article explains clearly explains classism and the discrimination faced at work:

https://www.worklife.news/dei/how-classism-impacts-the-workplace-and-what-employers-can-do-to-tackle-it/

It is worth a read. It is certainly not a non issue. It’s like saying racism isn’t an issue just because you haven’t experienced it.

Of course people notice these things. It's not just how you talk, it's a myriad of other indicators that people pick up on. Whether they care or not is a different matter, some do, some don't.
For example, and bearing in mind that this strangers on the internet, you said in one post that you're middle class. I actually don't think you are, I think you're probably working class in background. I say that because of a couple of things you've written. Of course I may be wrong but that's how you come across to me, of course it doesn't matter but that's why I say people do notice.

The myriad of other indicators being?

Also I hope the only reason you doubt me being middle class isn't because I was a teen mum?

Honestly I'm only saying this because I've never gone around thinking "he/she is middle/working class" at a push I'll think someone must of grown up wealthy if they speak like queen Elizabeth or Jacob Rees mogg but that is it. I doubt many people think that way if they do they are in the minority and need a hobby.

It’s strange that those questions are being asked, if they’re so middle class and educated can’t they read the room? I’m not sure if it’s just that particular workplace or whether you could find somewhere else to work within the same career where there aren’t those types of people working there?? I can’t think of a sector apart from finance (maybe in London) where you’d get that sort of snobbery.

I've not read all of the replies to this because this wasn't posted to start a classism debate - I just wanted to know if others have found decided to quit their careers because they feel like they don't fit in?

This is my experience and how it made me feel. If you don't think classism exists or that this doesn't happen in certain social circles and work places then lucky you... because it definitely does still happen.

I guess ultimately I didn't quit but I did deliberately and happily move onto a different course in time.

My favourite fish out of water moment was six of us on a project talking about where they had watched William & Kate's wedding. All other five had access to buildings along the parade route.
Either parents or friends or connections.
I countered with mowed the lawn and had the cess pit pumped out. Said with confidence they assumed land and privilege and I went up a notch. The reality was less Instagram more rural poor.

- I just wanted to know if others have found decided to quit their careers because they feel like they don't fit in?

I quit as had kids and priories changed - DH career means moves kids had SEN - but the misogyny and classism I hadn't expect to encounter in the sector made that an easier choice though it varied between workplaces.

DH tend to not say much about background or steer conversation into other directions or use his background to make a point. He has a strong regional accent as well. I think it may have delayed his rise up the ranks but some of his peers with much more MC backgrounds are at same level - so hard to really say. This is the career he wants - he enjoys gives him the mix he wants so no he's not getting pushed out.

I think you'll find you're in a minority thinking that people don't notice, they obviously don't dwell on it and probably don't care, but they notice it.
No, you being a teen mother wasn't the only reason I doubted you being middle class, it was one of the reasons but it was you describing other people's reactions to it eg people spitting on you, generally middle class people don't spit on middle class girls who become pregnant. It was mainly other things you said and how you word your replies etc that gave me the thought.
There are far too many class indicators to list them all here but you can pick up on things like the type of leisure activities a person enjoys, their hobbies, the clothes they wear, their children's haircuts, their children's names, the things they talk about in general conversation, their attitude towards school and education, TV programmes and type of films they watch, type of holidays they take etc etc.

I don't think you should quit but you need to work towards not giving a fuck. The final stage is to start enjoying it and messing with their heads.
I'm old and yet only last year a colleague asked me what car my dad drove when I was a child. Ffs, I'm 60 and don't need this shit so I told him the truth which was that he usually drove whatever he'd just robbed. It was the most entertaining few minutes I'd had for a while, watching him turn an interesting shade of purple and actually spluttering to get his words out (thought that only happened in films). He only managed to say how outrageous my answer was before I cut him off and reminded him that if he had stopped to consider that he may not like the answer maybe he shouldn't have asked the question. But like I said I'm old and don't give a shit any more. You, on the other hand OP, shouldn't let yourself be cowed by the wankers. Good luck.

Class indicators are hard to pin down in modern UK

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/2013/newsspec_5093/index.stm

BBC had a go - in 2011 - looking at income/saving/social groups and few cultural cues.

What those indicators are also seems to depend on age and location.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/society/2022/01/exclusive-the-british-public-is-changing-its-concept-of-class

It's a complex mess really - but it is still there and often more hidden than in past but it's a cultural thing so instinctive rather than deeply analysed by individuals and yes language usage is going to be part of that.

I don't think you should quit but you need to work towards not giving a fuck. The final stage is to start enjoying it and messing with their heads.

This.

Though DMum also said as she got older she knew she was better of than many who'd looked down on her - village life [eye roll] who were often living beyond their means - keeping up with Jones

or

Jack Rackham in Black sails:
"You people, incapable of accepting the world as it is," says the man to whom the world handed everything. If this is defeat for me, then know this. You and I were neck and neck in this race right till the end. But, Jesus, did I make up a lot of ground to catch you.

I kind of get this OP.

I was (still am) only person in my family and cousins/extended to go to university. My family were not poor, but they all held working class jobs or trades. We had a comfortable house in an OK area etc. and all my friends were the same growing up so I didn't really know any different. Until university - then I realised that there's this whole other section of society that went to private school, took tennis lessons, went skiing, took gap years (most people I know didn't have any money for this and went straight from school to uni and directly into work!) etc., had travelled a lot. I did start to feel a bit like a fish out of water.

I am in the legal profession so I do feel WC a lot. I speak well, but certainly not as well/posh as those around me and even if I try to speak 'posher' it just doesn't work or come out naturally. I do have to make sure I'm firing on all cylinders when talking through something complex as I feel people sometimes judge me before I've shown them what I can do. However, I equally find it a benefit sometimes as I have found people aren't intimidated by me and so we have more natural interactions and colleagues are more open with me. I guess they don't see me as competition!

Sometimes its funny too, and gives you a laugh. One very MC colleague of mine was enquiring what my husband does for a living - the assumption being he must be a high-flyer somewhere in the city (as many of their spouses are!). When I explained he's a primary teacher at the local sink estate state school the shock on her face was a moment of brilliance! Then followed a funny half-hour where she explained how virtuous it is of him to give up so much for the kids instead of striving ahead in the corporate roles he probably imagined he'd be doing (which, incidentally, he would absolutely hate hence why he's a teacher!)

I'd just be totally upfront and say you've never skied etc.. you come from different backgrounds and that's fine! I doubt they'd have any problem with that at all.

Why are other people's reactions relevant to me being middle class? Yeah you are right that the people who spat on me were not middle class they had no class but that says nothing about me.

As for hobbies horse riding is supposedly an upper class hobby but I know travellers (usually considered working class right?) who also love horse riding. It's not 1800 where only the wealthy could afford nice clothes and the peasants slunk around in brown tunics, different people are into different things it's not always about what class they are. Although obviously expensive stuff is only affordable to wealthier people but films and children's names? Anyone can watch whatever they like and call their child whatever they like.

And I shouldn't need to add that it's not just poor teenagers that have sex 🤷🏻‍♀️

Thank you for this.

All the posters saying ‘well why does it matter’ and ‘it’s not a big deal that you didn’t go skiing’ completely miss the point. I have been overlooked for promotion a number of times in favour of far less competent colleagues because they fit the middle class mould - the accent, the contacts, the right signifiers etc.

Class discrimination is real and dispiriting.

Military and ex-pats probably don't pay for boarding, or at least receive a large part of the fees with their job. Some very poor boarding schools are kept afloat by the MOD etc.!

I've heard athletes speak about it. Depending on culture and their family background, they may have a lot of people to help on their thousands a week. It's very different to when your entire family are already fairly comfortable and you're not having to provide just a basic standard of living for extended family on top of the luxuries for those closer.

When I read your OP I knew you were going to get lots of posts telling you "no one cares" about your socioeconomic background and that your colleagues are "just making conversation", as well as the posts strongly implying you're lying or exaggerating because they've never personally experienced or witnessed anything like that. Whenever there's a post referencing classism on MN people fall over themselves to dismiss it, explain it away or deny that it even exists. It's the same with threads about racism.

I know where you are coming from OP. I'm in the first generation of my family to go to University too. I know that at least 2 of my great grandparents were illiterate and none of my grandparents was educated beyond age 13, so our family has experienced a big change in a relatively small time frame.
Classism never made me want to change profession but I definitely experienced it and it probably did influence my choices of where to work. Throughout my career I was aware of the underlying message "you may have the same qualifications but you're not really one of us" from certain people. Sometimes it was subtle but other times, such as the examiner who openly mocked my accent during one of my professional exams, not so subtle. There were certainly places that I worked as a junior doctor that I knew I wouldn't thrive in as a consultant so I didn't even consider applying for posts there. It wasn't because I didn't believe I was good enough but I just didn't want to spend my working life surrounded by people who wouldn't miss an opportunity to highlight my lack of knowledge about wine, mock my choice of holidays etc. Whilst most of us don't go to work expecting to make friends for life, it's preferable to feel relaxed and have cordial relationships with your workmates so I deliberately looked for a department with a wide range of people.
As others have said, maybe you can find another workplace in the same profession that employs a broader range of people? I'm sure you have just as much ability as your colleagues - you wouldn't have achieved your degree and got the job if you didn't. But I understand how draining it is to be in an environment where you don't feel accepted. We spend a lot of time at work and it is very draining if the atmosphere is difficult. I hope you can find a happier environment.

I work in law and no one has ever asked me any of these questions and I’ve never heard anyone talk about anything like this? What kind of area do you work in? Sounds quite odd - I did go to a private school but no one has ever asked me?