To want to change careers because I miss my working class roots?

[LSCC]

I'm from a very working class background and working class family. Just generations and generations of working class. I was and still am the only one in my family to go to university and I've somehow gotten myself through the doors into a very middle class career. I'm just so unhappy there. Every conversation reminds me of how different I am. I have assimilated in some ways - the only reason I started travelling abroad was because I was sick of how often travel came up in conversation. Corporate DEI and how important a diverse workforce is, yet one of the first questions you'll be asked is what school you went to - expecting me to answer with some boarding school that they may have played a netball match or two with, rather than a local comprehensive that was rated 'needs improvement' by Ofsted. Being asked where I ski? Erm... I'm polite and friendly with colleagues obviously, but going from those kinds of conversations to back around my friends and family is such a culture shock.

I just don't think this kind of pretence is worth it anymore, and when I look back on the different jobs I've had the happiest ones have been when I have been surrounded by people with a similar background to me.

Does anyone else on here from a working class background struggle with this?

It's a workplace. Some places ask these sorts of questions, others don't. As others have said, just be yourself. You'll be accepted if you're pleasant and friendly, if you do a good job and are supportive of others. If you aren't those things, folk won't be interested, regardless of where you have travelled to, whether you can ski, or what school you went to.

Surely being "true to your real self" is part of honesty and integrity in the workplace, just as much as applying the same principles to your professional practice is?

I currently volunteer in a workplace which is full of older people who hold some rather right wing, middle class views which I disagree with. I correct them if I think they are spouting nonsense, but always gently and in a friendly way. Otherwise it isn't my business. I don't ski and I'm happy to say so. No, I've never felt the desire to have three expensive cruises per year, I couldn't think of anything more dreadful, but nice that they've had a good time.....

They hold some very doubtful ideas about politics, immigration, hunting or whatever. Sometimes I just head them off by changing the subject entirely and ignoring it. Sometimes I'll say "Well, I don't agree with any of that myself, what makes you think that way.....?
Sometimes it's so contentious I personally feel it shouldn't be a topic of conversation at all in any workplace, in which case I might say so: "This doesn't sound like a topic suitable for here, let's get on with XYZ instead...."

They accept me for who I am because I'm not in that workplace to 'pick a fight', nor am I concerned whether I 'fit in' or not, I'm there to do a good job and to get on with my colleagues in the most helpful way I can. End of.....

Upper class is aristocracy. The majority of children who attend boarding schools are from upper middle class families. However the elite boarding schools are another story!

So we agree that Lawyers, Doctors and Accountants are Middle Class?
because thats who Boarded at my school along with Military kids and kids with Parents working in Banking, Oil and similar overseas. So all firmly Middle Class.
I have UC friends, ones whose parents have actual titles so believe me I do know the difference.

They're just trying to make conversation, all be it inedeptly.

I'm solidly middle class - both parents teachers but I didn't know 1 person who went to private school or skied growing up.

I remember starting work in a professional job in the city and people discussing Tony Blair's plans to get 50% into uni. The other trainees were all seriously puzzling about this because they didn't know a single person who didn't go to uni!!

Different worlds! ....

@Plastictrees
"I work in psychology too. It is an astoundingly middle class profession, to the extent I am part of a national working group to address class barriers in the profession! Many of us have reported similar issues to the OP and feeling as though we don’t fit in with peers. Even if you just google classism in clinical psychology, a lot will come up. There are massive issues with recruitment and training in this respect too. If you don’t notice it, it is probably because you are part of it and blind to it."

Hey, I am not the enemy! I literally said it's a v middle class profession! I absolutely recognize barriers to working class entry to the profession, even more so now my profession (educational) has become a doctorate. So many brilliant candidates with life experience who just can't afford to take the financial hit to do the course. I have expressed this many times.

None of which means I am lying when I say that no one ever asks if you ski or what school you went to. I also work in a Northern town which probably helps.

I think you're talking about upper middle class. I'm middle class and went to state school, UK holidays, no friends at private school.

Also there are lawyers and lawyers. The high street ones round here earn £50k. Accountants similar ....

Apologies it wasn’t meant to come across that way! I agree with you. Yes I think the fact you work in a Northern town does help. However I live in Scotland now and class very much exists here, in a slightly different way to in England, which has been interesting. Hopefully the barriers can be reduced as psychology desperately needs greater diversity and representation!

@30percent With respect I think you are slightly off the mark when it comes to defining middle class and upper class systems - professions such as law and medicine are considered middle class. There are divisions within middle class, so you can get lower and upper. However upper class tends to be reserved for those with titles e.g aristocracy and tends to be born into.

I think the whole thing is completely outdated and ridiculous, anyway.

Lawyers are upper class. Doctors and accountants are middle yes but anyone working overseas in banking is extremely upper.
I'm in a middle class profession earning 20k a year there's working class electricians, plumbers etc earning twice that. This shit is kinda complicated but boarding school is definitely an upper class thing. Maybe some middle class doctor whos renowned for doing heart surgery can afford to send his kid to boarding school but he's reaching into extravagant territory in the same way op is with her job hes doing something considered above him. Generally speaking almost all kids at boarding school are upper class

I get where you're coming from, because the whole class system is preposterous. But as the class system has been traditionally defined, you're wrong. Lots of UMC people do send their kids to boarding school. That doesn't make them aristocracy.

A lot of people who the general population might regard as "posh" are actually upper middle class.

The whole thing is nonsense anyway, but its influence persists. I understand that it can be uncomfortable for people like the OP in an environment where others are lacking in awareness that not everyone is like them. I grew up in what I would describe as a middle class environment and felt terribly out of place with the UMC boarding school types that I met at uni, so it must be even harder for someone from a solidly working class background.

It can be difficult. Sometimes I feel like I'm undercover. I don't want to make some kind of "point" by saying no, I didn't go to college or university. No, I didn't have the experiences or opportunities you keep assuming I did. I've never found a way to say it that doesn't seem like I'm being chippy to them, when I'm not - it's just not the life I've had, that's all.

There's a particular way of saying these things they have - something like "you know when you're 20 and you're hungover and taking notes in a lecture..."

No, I don't know. When I was 20 I was on my hands and knees scrubbing human shit off the floor. Well, I can't say that! So I just sort of say mmm noncommittally.

So, mainly I don't say it, and feel like a fraud. I don't know the answer. I make my real friends outside work.

I don't think you really understand the class system.

Fair enough, because it's a stupid system. I wish we could just consign it to history where it belongs.

This is incorrect. Salary does not dictate class. Although there tends to be a correlation e.g bankers who come from very wealthy established families who are upper middle class. Wealth begets wealth. Plumbers and electricians would be considered working class. Lawyers, doctors, architects and other professions are considered working class. The upper class do not need to work, such is the great amount of privilege (and horrific inequality).

Most children attending boarding schools are upper middle class.

Agreed!

Thats exactly what I'm saying! I'm middle class on 20k a year and plumbers and electricians etc are working class but can earn twice that. Like I said shit is complicated. But my main point is boarding school is upper class behaviour not middle. And the op shouldn't quit her job.

indeed - people who can afford to work in low paid but fun / glamorous / interesting jobs often have the backing of intergenerational wealth to do so, which also keeps salaries low in these sectors and precludes talented, but less well off people being able to compete - endemic in the arts and cultural sectors

You’re very confused. Lawyers absolutely aren’t UC! And income doesn’t define class — my plumber definitely earns more than I do, but that doesn’t place him anywhere in particular on the class ladder. Boarding schools differ a lot in their social intake — Eton is going to have a different class spread (including UC boys whose grandfathers went there, but also the international nouveau riche and scholarship boys from far less wealthy backgrounds) to a less prestigious school.

I’m WC in a MC profession, with friends from all kinds of class backgrounds these days, and a scattering of my friends boarded, and some sent their own children to boarding school for various reasons. The small boarding school I’m most familiar with currently (because DS has friends from primary school there and a friend has two sons there) has a large percentage of overseas boarders sent there to learn English.

Oh my god MN, stop this tedious endless discussion about who counts as middle class why does every single thread turn into this absolutely boring debate.

Who counts as middle class? The people that go ON AND ON about plumbers earning more than doctors on MN. That's it. Everyone else is a toff or a scally. Question answered. You can breathe EASY NOW. THE FISHKNIVES ARE ORDERED CORRECTLY.

If you don't like you can f Off no one is forcing you to read it

Yes absolutely, I completely agree.

Corporate lawyers earn a packet. Criminal solicitors and barristers do not- legal aid rates work out as being below the minimum wage. Go down most high streets and you’ll see very ordinary solicitors firms above shops. Family solicitors, barristers and legal executives are just ordinary people from ordinary backgrounds. That all says nothing about their class background

The answer in this situation as in so many situations in life is not to give a monkey's about other peoples opinions and judgements. Life is so much easier if you go about your business not giving a fuck what people think of you. You are free then to be yourself.

The idea that we should travel just so we can talk about travel to people we don't like sums up a lot of what is wrong with people and the modern world.

Is this a dig at me lol my job isn't interesting just a regular middle class job sat in front of a computer/till. Hate to think I'm causing more talented less well off people to miss out on this level of stagnation 🤣 shame my dad wasted the intergenerational wealth

Sometimes it's easier to divide people into cultural capital classes.
So DH's friend who did Fine Art at Uni and is now a painter decorator, listens to radio 4 and reads a big newspaper.
MiL had never been to a panto and observed it like a safari. SIL took her to Centre Parks but she still thinks IKEA is only for students.
My millionaire friend who lives in a semi detached, bulk buys food due to childhood poverty, always puts his hand in his pocket which gets written off against business but keeps track of who owes him. Loves a sexist, racist meme.
Genteel poverty in the countryside, wooden toys, theatre once a year, borrows the worst house in a posh resort every other year.

I struggled with it @LSCC although I’m 44 now with my own very middle class children who would struggle to comprehend my childhood I’m sure.

When I started law school in London, the first two weeks were just as you described - what school did you go to, what did your parents do? I wouldn’t have believed it to be like that either until I experienced it myself.

I found it so strange - I’d moved out of home at 17! My mum was a dinner lady and my dad worked at Homebase. My 16 year old sister had just had a baby. I was sleeping on the sofa at my mum’s flat until I could find a room in shared house, which I had to take a loan out to pay for. Everyone I met (I later found the exceptions!) had been to a private school, they were bankrolled by their parents. I had three(!) part time jobs and I was the only person who was even working. I look back it on it now and I feel for my younger self who worked so very hard just to keep up - there is no doubt that it has been so much harder for me to get to where I am now than it was for most of my peers there.

Over the years I’ve become a lot more comfortable with who I am in these situations. I had a lot more determination, spark and grit and that has served me well. I also don’t feel embarrassed like I used to about my background. I won’t be made to feel like that by anyone.