To want to change careers because I miss my working class roots?

[LSCC]

I'm from a very working class background and working class family. Just generations and generations of working class. I was and still am the only one in my family to go to university and I've somehow gotten myself through the doors into a very middle class career. I'm just so unhappy there. Every conversation reminds me of how different I am. I have assimilated in some ways - the only reason I started travelling abroad was because I was sick of how often travel came up in conversation. Corporate DEI and how important a diverse workforce is, yet one of the first questions you'll be asked is what school you went to - expecting me to answer with some boarding school that they may have played a netball match or two with, rather than a local comprehensive that was rated 'needs improvement' by Ofsted. Being asked where I ski? Erm... I'm polite and friendly with colleagues obviously, but going from those kinds of conversations to back around my friends and family is such a culture shock.

I just don't think this kind of pretence is worth it anymore, and when I look back on the different jobs I've had the happiest ones have been when I have been surrounded by people with a similar background to me.

Does anyone else on here from a working class background struggle with this?

I haven’t bothered to jump in on this so far, but as you’ve said it so bluntly and so confidently, I felt I had to correct you - the upper class have absolutely never been, and are not now, defined by familial proximity to hereditary titles. The vast majority of the upper class, in the past and now, are untitled, which is difficult for modern people with no direct interaction with the generationally wealthy to understand, especially historically - if you’ve ever read a historical romance novel written in the last 30 years, you’ll know that modern authors absolutely stuff their pages full of dukes, earls, Lord and Ladies Somethingoranother, in stark contrast to Austen novels, written when people had a far keener understanding of “what counted” as each specific class strata, where hereditary titles are rarely seen, but most of the characters are distinctly aristocratic.

The general ideal of the upper classes in the past was to have the entirety of your income come from passive means - chiefly land ownership. Society doesn’t have the same stigma around income derived from trade nowadays, so expanding that definition to also apply to anyone who now, and for many generations previously, has had the majority of their income derived from mostly passive means - landlords, large, historic businesses owners, trade magnates - is only logical. There are many other people who count as upper class, but it’s generally more a case of “when you know, you know” rather than hard-and-fast criteria. Having generations of your family board and owning recreational property abroad would definitely be a contributing factor to that knowing. The level of income you need to have to even consider outlaying £20-40k per year, per child, on education, and the values you have to hold to think it’s worth it, are very indicative of being upper class.

Thank you for explaining this in a better way than I ever could have done 🙏🏻 there's definitely more upper class people than people realise. Some people especially on this website seem to have lost sight of the meaning of the word "middle"

THis sort of thing blows my mind. I have mixed in upper, middle and working class backgrounds socially and am currently working in the psychology sector after 20 years of working with offenders.

I've never realised someone asking what school or university (local state school, didn't do the 'uni' thing), whether I ski (never in childhood, I learnt to snowboard once I was earning money and went a few times, loved it, but can't afford it now) or what my parents did was anything other than polite conversation.

What makes people look deeply at it?

Should we not ask?

no, i hadn't noted your posts in particular and was not responding with you in mind.

People seem to take great offence at being asked what school they went to as if anyone asking the question is a snob ready to laugh at anyone who didn't go to boarding school. It's actually a pretty normal question especially if you both grew up in the same area

I’m working class and now living a middle or actually probably upper lifestyle after marrying my DH and being successful in my career.

The only time schools come up is when we’re talking about schools for the kids. Skiing, I’ve never been asked.

I honestly don’t think anyone really cares. They notice if you’re snobby, ostentatious or grabby, if you’re rude or mean, but no one cares about perceived childhood class background. Or if they do care I’ve not noticed, and if they did care I wouldn’t want to spend time with them anyway.

Are you projecting your unhappiness or unease in this case? Perhaps you just happen to work with a bunch of snobs?

Which branch of psychology? Because if it’s clinical psychology then your post blows my mind. Classism is rife here and is being addressed at a national level.

You can’t have become UC, though, regardless of your income or lifestyle. And of course people notice. Some care, some don’t, but they definitely notice.

You can the easiest way is to marry into it though. I guarantee you most people don't care or notice what class you're from unless you talk like the queen even then most people won't care. Anyone who thinks it's hard being around people richer/poorer than them should try picking their reception age kid up from school when youre 19 and everyone else is in their 30s or 40s. Now THAT is awkward.

@TheMaenads

Oh sure, as I said, just living the lifestyle.

I’m also sure they’ve noticed, that’s fine, I’m not pretending to be anything I’m not. I’m very honest about going to a pretty dreadful state school. I just don’t think anyone in our circle cares. What matters more is who you are not what school you once went to.

The people who aren’t liked are those who aren’t nice people, irrespective of wealth or background.

No, not clinical, I'm in Coaching psychology.

It might be that I have only just joined the sector at nearly 50. as you do definitely give less fucks about what people thing as you get older. But I've never really been one to take offence at what people say to me, (which could be why I've always worked well with offenders and teenagers). I have had a few judges talk down to me in Crown court and it was upsetting but I definitely saw that as an individual rather than a 'judge' thing.

I just can't see an issue with asking about someone's background or if someone went to university and where. I probably should also point out that people tend to assume I did go to uni in the usual way and they're often surprise when I tell them I didn't. I don't have a posh accent though, it just an assumption people make from the way I come across.

That’s great that some people have not personally experienced barriers or exclusion due to their social class on the thread. But that does not change the fact that classism absolutely exists and is a problem in the UK. There has been considerable research in this area. People with RP accents are far more likely to be offered the job that someone who speaks in a regional dialect. The government is dominated by old school privileged Etonians - stale, pale and male. There are very real barriers that exist in society and it’s more than feeling a bit awkward because someone asked you about skiing once.

Sure, but it’s pretty deeply unlikely someone UC is going to marry someone WC, and, if they did, the WC partner isn’t going to become UC overnight. Yes, absolutely possible to marry someone UMC, eg William and Kate.

I guarantee you (as a WC girl who went to Oxford, works in an overwhelmingly MC profession and lives in a UMC area, married a WC man with a similar trajectory, both with a fairly wide spread of friends) that people register your social class, or what they perceive to be your social class. It may not even be conscious, but they do.

Yes, indeed.

Because every question they ask is a veiled test of where another person stands in the social pecking order.

I have met people like this socially. I once endured a Christmas dinner where the only topic of conversation was how high up the mountain their various ski chalets were. I don't ski (I had once, so managed to limp through the evening with that anecdote when asked.) I later found out that there's a social status attached to how high up the mountain your ski chalet is, so what they were actually talking about was: who is richest, who has highest status. All, Night. Long. It's bloody boring and exhausting and intentionally alienating.

Surely the OP has a life outside work?

My son is in his first "professional" graduate job surrounded by serious/professional types.

But, he still goes to football matches every Saturday, still goes to the pub with his friends, still does overnight online gaming with his old Uni flat mates.

He says he's basically living parallel lives and that's fine by him. He obviously doesn't go into work in his replica football kit but nor would he stand in the football stadium in his smart work clothes.

I understand what you mean. I am referring to the barriers of entry into my profession, due to class (also myriad other factors). I supervise current Trainees, and it often comes up how uncomfortable they have felt when working in very middle class teams. Being unable to join in with conversations and feeling embarrassed by the way they talk. It can be quite isolating. Also bearing in mind that the vast majority of patients we work with are not middle class, and how it feels to have to navigate a power imbalance and also class differences in a therapeutic environment. Anyway - good luck with your new career!

Maybe I've been given enough shit for having my first child at 15 but no one has ever said anything to me about my social class the idea that everyone is going around registering whether you're working middle or upper is kinda hilarious. Like i said though exceptions if you talk like the queen but if not nobody cares. It's probably all in your head. I mean do you go around registering the social class of people you meet? How the hell would you even be able to tell unless they spoke like the queen. Even then I know one particular lunatic who has taught himself to speak like a king but is far from rich. Honestly there are worse things to be self conscious about then your social class, I only ever even see people discuss it on this website tbh. I think some of you have to let go of the paranoia

You don’t think classism exists?

I know there's some snobs out there I'm just saying it's no where near as widespread a mindset as made out on this thread. I mean who quits their job they worked hard for because someone asked what school they went to?

@30percent Classism is more than that though. We could all just ignore a few snobs. Classism is a form of discrimination based on social class resulting in barriers of entry to certain jobs and professions, the education system, etc. It means that it is harder for those from less privileged backgrounds to succeed and improve their circumstances. Definitely an issue. Just not for those at the top!

I'm middle class due to parents' professions etc., however even though we grew up very well off we were socially and culturally impoverished due to family problems.

Anyway, it meant I didn't have the sort of childhood and experiences people expected me to have.

When I moved to London after university and joined a very MC profession, I did everything in my power to integrate and gain those experiences in early adulthood. I went skiing, did lots of travelling, had MC boyfriends, went to the theatre, the opera, ballet etc. I essentially made up for the childhood I missed out on due to issues in the family, and became socially and culturally middle class.

Why is this not an option? Socially climbing / bettering yourself is really looked down on these days, but it was the best thing I ever did.

How old are you? Nobody talks about where they were educated after about their mid 20s. Also, I work with plenty of people that don't ski but I don't make any judgement on that and nor does anyone else, maybe just a bit of sadness that they don't experience the fun of it.
I work in the city which is where I'd expect this kind of behaviour more than anywhere else but I just don't come across it. I'd be interested to know what industry you are in and where you are located.

Because not everyone wants to do those things or has the financial means to do so! It is incredibly patronising to suggest that working class people should seek to ‘better’ themselves… by going to the opera! Honestly I’m struggling to hide my disdain at this, ridiculous.

@Plastictrees if you're in an MC profession like the OP, the assumption is you do have the financial means.