Dealing with teachers who are (imho) bullying children

[derivativation]

DC is year 8. The school was mostly amazing last year but unfortunately we have had a head change head and several new teachers, with several really good teachers leaving.

Several of the new teachers get too critical with the children, saying they are not very clever, that they have no thoughts, their mind is a void, boys are not as good as girls etc. DC is well behaved and so not affected until last week. DC has however stood up for one of the children who was being called stupid by making a light hearted comment. DC was really upset that children were being called stupid and we had decided to try to move school by that point, though it will take a bit of time to organise because of practicalities. But now it has got worse. Last week and today two teachers in classes where DC has done well and the teacher has sung DC's praises (DC does all required homework, does not disrupt classes, puts hand up to speak) talked to DC as though DC had done something very bad and that he deserved to be treated really badly. DC very upset. I strongly suspect that the teachers are intentionally trying to take DC down a peg or two because someone has said they are too much of a smarty pants. DC is quiet and can come across as quietly confident, but DC is not confident at all deep down.

The new head is a chocolate teapot who has brought in a series of changes to rules which appear to be designed to humilate and shame children.

Any brilliant ways of dealing with this while DC has to attend? If I try to talk to the teachers they will think that I am trying to tell them what to do and it will make things worse for DC. If I tell them that DC is in fact not confident and is in some ways quite vulnerable, they will pick on him. I am not joking unfortunately.

I wish I could home school but to set that up would take just as long as finding a better school.

I had similar at school as a teen and my mum arranged a meeting face to face with the teacher and the head to discuss the issue with me in the room. It didn’t change the fact the teacher was a complete arsehole, but she treated me a lot better afterwards and I was so proud of my mum for sticking up for me.

We need to role model how to stick up for ourselves. It’s a skill we all need as an adult, life doesn’t get easier.

Unless the teacher also happens to be the dictator of the country where the school is located, he is not entirely in charge what is ok and not ok in his classroom.

He has broad leeway, yes, but there are still laws, norms, and professional standards to comply with, just like any other profession.

We simply don’t know if the teacher was calling the students themselves stupid, or was only referring to a particular action. If the former, that does not conform with professional standards in any jurisdiction that I know if. And if done repeatedly, that would make him a bully.

I was in some tough classes growing up, and while the teachers sometimes said we had done something stupid, I don’t recall a single one referring to an actual student that way. And these were teachers who had widely differing styles and ranged in age from their early 20s to their 70s.

Which can also be another very very bad way to prepare kids for the future

Like in any profession, the vast majority of teachers will not be bullies, but some will be. So I wouldn’t say it’s extremely unlikely for someone to have one such teacher across all their years of schooling.

But that's why you know the DCs account is most likely incorrect.

1 teacher being unprofessional and cruel, believable.

3 teachers all colluding to mistreat 1 well-behaved child, completely unrealistic.

I'm not a teacher, but you have said roughly what I was thinking.

But one thing I've noticed over my decades as a parent:
If a child starts complaining about a teacher/school to their parent and their parent believes with bated breath everything they say, then the child almost always is spurred on to tell them more and more, twisting what is said to make good stories - and them standing up bravely, but politely, for other children is a fairly frequent one that is trotted out.

What you fail to understand is that here, on Mumsnet, bad teachers do not exist, nor are schools ever in the wrong. Despite the prevalence of bullies among the general population, they are completely absent from the teaching profession.

If there is no video evidence, you must always assume that your child, or for that matter a whole group of children, is lying. However, having a student record a teacher to obtain that evidence would also be unacceptable, as would having a parent volunteer in the classroom to see for themself.

And in the impossible event that a teacher does turn out to be a bully, this is a good thing because it will help the children build resilience. Or some stupid shit like that.

If it were random chance, it would be unlikely for three teachers to all behave that way. But it isn’t, because these three teachers work together, all arrived at the same time, and were all hired by the same head.

It is also possible that the other two teachers are not bullies, but have themselves been given a one-sided or incomplete version of events. I doubt the first teacher went into the staff lounge and said “guess who I bullied today?”

You wouldn't believe some half cocked story from your kid about an affair so that argument is irrelevant.

Three teachers don't randomly take against your child. Clearly your child's behaviour isn't as good as you think it is.

"staff lounge"? Is this in the USA?

derivativation

You have written a lot but not actually explained a great deal.

As you appear to be withdrawing your DS from this school, you could put in a formal complaint about the teachers, but this would need to go the the head first then the governors, then the LA or whoever if an academy.
I'm not sure what you want out of this.

Killertomato
yet again you jump on entirely the wrong thing. A child telling a child they are stupid is of course wrong. As I said a teacher saying that a particular behaviour was stupid is not.
Yes the teacher is the judge of whether something is OK in the classroom obviously as long as they are being professional and reasonable. As usual you are here to tell us that teachers are bullies with petty agendas.

OP if it helps when I had to go into school to discuss my DS's (SEN) progress, I found it really helpful to imagine that I was from an outside organisation sent in to perform a review. It made me take a step back and be able to be taken through the situation and ask things like, why was that approach helpful? What do you think the (name) student learned from this situation? Has that approach been supported by subsequent behaviour? etc etc. It's so visceral when you suspect your child is being at least undermined in the classroom if not outright bullied. Putting myself in the imagined position of a third party helped me put across concerns and receive feedback in a less emotive way. It also helps you come across as collected, calm, and quietly assertive which you may, but hopefully not have to be.

Sorry would staff room be more to your liking? I hope that addresses your primary concern with the situation.

The entire issue in question is whether, in fact, what the teacher did is professional and reasonable. If they called a student stupid, it wasn’t. If they only called a student’s action stupid, that’s different.

And no, I’m not here to tell you teachers are bullies, because I am capable of understanding nuance and so do not make blanket statements about entire professions as you do.

What a lovely experience for you (not having a mean teacher!) But knowing your Mum had your back, you were important enough and deserving for her to have your back and seeing her model that for you. I would strive to do the same for my children 🩷

I can believe an individual teacher could be nasty or even a bully. I don’t believe that multiple teachers in the same school (the majority of whom apparently new) are not only bullying a number of DC, but also now colluding to bully the OP’s DS.

What is getting detention for the wrong colour socks, or isolation for taking off a blazer when they're hot, or having a few mm too short skirt actually preparing them for though?

There has been no time in my adult life where I could not take my coat/jacket/jumper off, no one has ever commented on my socks, I can have any hairstyle I want and I can go to the toilet whenever I want?

It's bizarre that teachers think this somehow teaches them discipline and/or life skills but actually it just teaches them that school is Draconian and has no bearing on the real world whatsoever.

You have been on MN long enough to know that your entire post is rubbish.
There are many on here who will repeatedly tell you that teachers and schools are always wrong.

Most days in my adult life I have clothing expectations and restricted toilet times. So do plenty of work places.

Killertomato, your posts are not only funny but also perceptive and discerning. I thank you!

In all of my jobs there have been expectations of what I can and cannot wear.
So places have been much more relaxed than others.
You should also know that there are many jobs where you can't just go to the toilet when you like.

Good lord. I'm just trying to clarify the situation.
I can't abide sarcasm, there's really no need.
How unpleasant.

I've asked this already so I would appreciate an answer - (sarcasm free, please) has this taken place in a state school in the UK?
Thank you.

That's not a reference, particularly in that the new head isn't able to do anything if the previous head says "he's a right pain. He doesn't even let our teachers bully the stupid children" or similar. Yes, we try to contact the previous school (not the head; any secondary schools have >2000 students) but if they say there are significant issues, we can't do anything to prevent the child from turning up on their start date.