To ask if you think I was rude?

[oldwornstuff]

Mortified if so.

Took my DS (16 months) to a swimming class this morning. We normally go to a different one but he was unwell last week.

A woman was there who was in the same swimming class when DS was a baby with her DD. I greeted her and she seemed pleasant and smiley.

in the changing rooms I went, said goodbye but then realised I’d forgotten something so went back in and heard her talking about me to her mum saying ‘she was so rude when I invited her to (DDs) party.’

I looked back through my messages and she did invite us to a party which was run by a baby sensory lady. I had replied saying ‘thank you for inviting us but we are busy.’

Was that rude?

It is rude though. Would you like to join us for a drink? No
Would you like some of this cake i baked at the weekend?No

Short but not rude. Definitely not opening up any kind of interest in ever keeping in touch ever again. Rightly or wrongly I find it less brusque if people explain eg sorry we can’t make it, we’re busy with grandma’s 80th

Sorry OP I'm in the other mums camp here.
No issues with not going to the party but it was very dismissive and you didn't even wish the birthday girl a nice party.
I wouldn't have bothered with you again either

Absolutely agree. A whole thread of people saying op is rude because she didn't lie her ass off in a text to someone she barely knows!
Who the fuck knew you're supposed to pretend to be gutted to miss yet another appalling child's party, give birthday wishes to the child who can't read them and doesn't know who you are, and tell them your life story so they can judge if your reason for not attending is good enough?

How exhausting. And they say it's us ND people who are difficult?

she does sound hard work

“lie her ass off” ? No-one has suggested that. You don’t need to invent a reason why you can’t be there or say “wish we could come” if you don’t. Just a few little extra words to be polite, eg unfortunately we’re busy and hope she has a great party, for example.

Yes it's called communication skills.

Apparently you're supposed to say that it sounds fantastic (lie) you're terribly sorry you can't make it (lie) and you hope little X has a wonderful party ,(lie because you don't really care) and you hope to see them soon (probably a lie) and you're supposed to invent a socially acceptable reason for not going (lie).

I lived in the Netherlands for a while, they don't do any of these things and think Brits are disingenuous and untrustworthy because they are unable to be direct. It's the same in other countries too. And yet you're all so obsessed with the notion of people being rude if they don't be like you in this way. It's ethnocentrism and kinda offensive, as well as exhausting

Ethnocentrism! lol!

What's funny about ethnocentrism? You realise the British notion of what is rude is not universal?!

I agree the Dutch are more direct. I used to work for a Dutch company.
If we sent a document to a Dutch colleague to review they would email back with 'This is wrong, that is wrong, the other is wrong'. Whereas a UK based person would say 'Generally the document is fine, however I do have the following points: This is wrong, that is wrong, the other is wrong'.

It is cultural.

But you have to adapt to the culture you are in especially if people don't know you well.

Oh well. You’re clearly better and more enlightened than all of us. Well done.

Technically, it isn't rude.

But it is lacking in all of the normal social niceties that most people would include in a text like this, so I can understand why the other mum felt like she did.

To me, it gives of definite "not interested in being friendly" vibes, so I would probably back off if I received something like this.

I have a Dutch MIL, so I can relate to the Dutch directness! I don't like her much, but am amicable for DHs sake (not that he's close with her either though!). She just uses the 'directness' excuse to be unreasonably rude though tbf!

More abrupt than I'd say but not rude as such.

Just to say you're overthinking this though.

The other lady was talking to her mum, so likely she'd share things with her that she doesn’t share with other people.

She explained she thought you were rude (and obviously she remembers the adruptness of the message from months ago). BUT, what she didn't say to her Mum was "oh my goodness, that was Suzie who sent me the rude birthday response".

So in the intervening months she hasn't given it any thought until she saw you again.

It wasn't technically rude, but it was a bit short. Text communication has all sorts of nuances around it. You don't have all of the non-verbal context that you have in a face-to-face conversation, so people - consciously or unconsciously - fill in the gaps themselves. It's like when you've got stuck in a perfectly pleasant back-and-forth message exchange and someone needs to stop, so you're trying to craft a response in a way that makes it clear this is the end of the conversation without having to say 'I need to stop replying now as I have other things to do.'
I think most people are aware - hyper aware in some cases - of the potential for your tone to be misread, meaning that the there's a whole language/etiquette around text messages. I actively started doing the whole 'Ah, I'm so sorry' thing, even though typing 'Ah' makes me cringe a bit, as it had clearly become shorthand for 'Oh no, I wish I could and I don't want you to think I'm just not interested but etc etc.'
The context of the conversation doesn't make it sound as though the other mum has been fuming about it for months, just that her mum queried the exchange and she said she knew you but hadn't pursued a friendship as your text felt like a brush-off.

Cross posted with previous poster saying the same thing re context!

I've lived in a country where people are more direct than in the UK and also in a country where people are even less direct. Undoubtedly there are cultural differences around this, and there are pros and cons to each approach.

It's ethnocentric to assume that one approach is the right one and that others are wrong - so if the English think that the Dutch are rude for being so direct, that would be ethnocentrism, but the Dutch are being equally ethnocentric if they conclude that British people are being disingenuous for expressing themselves less directly.

The polite, culturally sensitive approach is to adapt to the norms of the host culture. So if the OP is in the UK, then her reply was lacking some of the usual social niceties that might be expected in that situation.

This is it. It was a nice gesture to invite you but your response was quite abrupt and just shuts the conversation down. There is no warmth. It comes across as rather cold and unfriendly and suggests that you are not interested in engaging further with this person. Parties for little ones can be a way of reaching out to other mums, so I can see why she might have read your response in a negative light.

Ok let’s break this down:
- you're supposed to say that it sounds fantastic (lie) I think maybe one person has suggested this - you don’t need to say it
-you're terribly sorry you can't make it (lie) you don’t need to say “terribly” and why wouldn’t you feel sorry, at least for the host, that you can’t accept the invitation
-and you hope little X has a wonderful party ,(lie because you don't really care) why would it be a lie to wish them well for the party? You don’t need to say ‘wonderful’, just ‘good’. Why wouldn’t you want them to have a good time, even if you’re not bothered about going?
-and you hope to see them soon (probably a lie) you don’t need to say this. Only a few people suggested you should. It’s just a social nicety anyway.
and you're supposed to invent a socially acceptable reason for not going (lie). You don’t need to give a reason. In my example response above I just said “unfortunately we’re busy that day”. The word unfortunately does a lot of heavy lifting and “that day” somehow makes it seems like there are plans already in place (which I assume there were for the op) rather than just a vague “busy” which can be interpreted as just not bothering. Or you could just say “we already have other plans”, so no you don’t need to lie about a specific reason. Before you say it, “unfortunately” is not a lie because even if you’re secretly relieved that you can’t go, you can feel it’s unfortunate for the host that you had to decline the invitation.

Thank you for inviting us, it sounds like lots of fun, but unfortunately we have another commitment that day. I hope that you have a lovely time celebrating Cederic, see you at swimming next week.

would have been a more polite and warm response.

I would have thought you were a bit cold and rude.

I think your reply was quite abrupt. @Mnetcurious breaks it down perfectly!

I don't think it was rude. You did say "thank you for inviting us", it would have helped to say unfortunately we can't make it. The trouble with messaging is the lack of a tone of voice, it's why it's good to use more words.

It might work in the Netherlands and in Germany but you would be considered rude in Italy, France, Spain, Sweden, Norway, the UK, the US.. You have been invited to a party by someone. The polite thing is to say thank you for the invitation and graciously decline. And if it's a birthday it goes without saying that you wish him a happy birthday. It's just basic manners except in the Netherlands and Germany.

Yes your reply was quite blunt