To be kept awake by class scoring system?

[PurpleRains]

I’ve been lying in bed crying, so I think I might be being ridiculous, but here goes…

I have a lovely DS, aged 7, Year 2. At parents evening a couple of weeks ago I was told there were no concerns academically, some of his maths is at mastery level, and he is a good role model to his classmates, he is calm, sensible and friendly to others. When he has play dates at other people’s houses I’m told he’s been a pleasure, and he’s invited back. In other words, I’m confident my child is a good kid.

Here’s my problem… 3 weeks ago, the school introduced a new points system. Previously it was some kind of chart at school, and when they reached so many points they were allowed to choose something from a range of stationery items. I don’t think my child got loads of points, it didn’t really rate high on my day to day life unless he wanted to tell me.

The new system is an app. I can log on at anytime and see throughout the day whether my child has been awarded any points. Points are awarded for “demonstrating excellent learning behaviours” in things like listening, curiosity, risk-taking, perseverance, independence, cooperation, and resilience. I can also see whether he’s been awarded them as an individual or if the whole class got the point.

So far my child is receiving 3 to 5 points per week, 2-3 points have been awarded to the whole class.

The child who scores the most points in each class each week, receives recognition in assembly and a certificate I think. So far the top scores in his class have been 18 and 24!

I’m taking this far harder than my child! (who doesn’t mention it unless I ask). I can’t decide whether to
a) feel upset that my child’s obvious brilliance is being overlooked 😉
b) feel I’m failing as a parent as clearly my child is not demonstrating sufficient excellence at any of these 7 key qualities
c) be annoyed that the teacher must be awarding around 150-200 points a week, which I take to be one every 10 minutes, when they could be focusing on other children.

I think mostly I’m taking it personally and feel my parenting is being scored every day, and it’s stressing me out more than anything!

AIBU to be upset and stressed by this scoring system?

I kind of disagree with the posters saying it's only the kids who need encouragement who get lots of points. As I said in my post above, one of my DC always gets loads of points, and he's neither super bright nor badly behaved / struggling. I think it's just a bit random!

Either way, it's not worth worrying about OP.

I was just thinking about your situation again and it reminded me of something with my DS.

DS is also autistic and has quite high needs. I remember talking to his paediatrician when he was about 4, describing how he sat under the slide for 45 minutes, utterly absorbed in watching the light filter through the holes. I can remember being a bit teary because all the other nursery children were playing together. I was so sad about him being on his own.

The paediatrician was quite blunt with me. She said that I needed to stop seeing it through my eyes and projecting emotions that he wasn’t feeling. Instead she pointed out that he was perfectly happy and was doing something that brought him joy. She told me that I needed to learn to view things from his perspective instead of dwelling on my own feelings.

It honestly was the kick up the arse I needed and she was right. I was imagining all these sad things about him being left out and alone but actually he was really happy!! He’s such a sunny child, just gorgeous. He loved sitting under that slide!! ❤️

And you getting caught up in big emotions tonight reminded me of that. It’s so easy to feel enraged for what we feel is an injustice, but actually, your child is happy and doing really well!! It feels as if it might help you to focus on how happy he is rather than dwell on what you perceive as a sense of loss or injustice.

I know it’s a strange comparison but at its heart, it feels like the same thing. Take a step back and focus on how chilled and happy he is. You’re doing everything right. He’s not sad, or even remotely bothered. That’s what matters. It’s hard when you can’t fix things for them but also, sometimes we need to learn that from their perspective there’s nothing to fix.

Please don't worry about this.
My ds was very much like this and I used to feel similar when my friends dcs in the same primary school and secondary school would get awards and emails home. My ds got none.
But, without going into too much detail, as late teens now, my ds is doing really well.
I'm glad I never showed my disappointments and just kept encouraging him and celebrating his wins at home with the family.
Honestly op. Please don't worry about it.
Keep being proud of him. Let him become the wonderful person he can through your nurturing.

You say this has only recently been introduced. So inwould hazard a guess that teachers are still getting used to the whole system too and are probably not remembering to add points on.

I think the only time I really ever looked at dojo for dd or my dsc when they were in primary was when they asked if I like the new monster they had done.

I think you need to take a step back. They are ultimately utterly meaningless and you are giving it way too much head space. Far more than is normal. Which would lead me to ask what else is going on in your life that you are deflecting into this issue.

I hope you are ok @PurpleRains but perhaps focus on what the real issue is rather than shifting that focus onto obsessing over behaviour points.

As someone who had to drudge up to the front of assembly to collect another merit certificate from the Head every single week...I resented this conspicuousness, as I imagine did everyone else.

As long as the teachers know your son's ability that is all that matters. It's probably less good if his peers know even in primary school. And for your son, it's important he doesn't become complacent as talent is nothing without hard work. He sounds like a wonderful boy.

Trust your teachers and stop checking the app!

YANBU

I'm a teacher, school for send and semh. Points like this don't work.

Also from my sons perspective, going from a holistic school where he needed no more that words of encouragement to shine and enjoyed trying his best, to one where they have a very ott point system, it demoralised him. It's a middle so he's had two years of it. Now in y7 he's used to it but has no respect for it.

What I realised is that he was trying his best and doing amazing work but for what ever reason sometimes didn't win that week's highest score. Which instantly downgraded all his achievements.

Then they'd get trips to bowling alleys for the class. And end of year trips for individuals to the local football stadium. 6 months in he realised educational visits weren't happening due to these trips.

He just wanted to go on an educational visit, no strings attached, instead of something that was supposedly earnt and they'd already been to.

What broke my heart was that he loves art and is really good at it but experiencing subjective points linked to that (eg not finishing work - arts but like maths) gave him the message he's not.

School systems are notoriously unfair. It's irritating, but not worth crying over.

DS's school (secondary) gives merits, but also one golden ticket awarded in each class. Too many times he'll try his hardest, be silent in class and put his hand up for every question BUT the kid who normally does zero work, puts their hand up once, and managed half a page of written work is awarded the golden ticket for doing better than normal. It encourages the badly behaved children to behave better, however the flip side is my son doesn't see the point in trying his hardest. It is what it is, but the number of merits and golden tickets doesn't reflect how well he is doing.

If your DS is not upset by it or comparing himself to others then that’s the most important thing. Achievement points like this are going to follow him through the school system for years. You need to learn to tune it out and focus on the important things which are whether he’s happy, has friends and is where he needs to be in his learning. I suspect the fact he’s not bothered by the points is one of the reasons he perhaps doesn’t have many, he’s not motivated by them and isn’t doing certain things in order to get them. And that’s totally fine!

Is it class dojo?

You are not being unreasonable, we have it at our school (that I work in) and I hate it. Causes lots of stress to pupils and it's a ball ache for teaching staff. "Do I get a dojo for that?" "How many?" Remembering what you gave a dojo for last week so you can give an equal number the next time someone does the same thing. I work in a pastoral role in the school and the teachers all see it as extra work and it's mainly used for behaviour management. We have a lot of lovely kids like your son who fly under the radar. In our school it's mainly the ones that really struggle with learning behaviours and the absolute high flyers that get the most points - this doesn't surprise me and this effect has always been seen with verbal praise but now there are recorded points attached to it it's really brought it into focus.

The main thing is, your son isn't bothered. See it as a tool the school are using, and try your best to ignore it. Definitely don't attach a value judgement to it.

My kids are in secondary with a similar points system. I checked on our app - DD, who is always immaculately behaved, works extremely hard, but is very quiet, has HALF as many points this term as her brother who puts in less effort but has an excellent memory for facts and sticks his hand up all the time in class.

It's meaningless, I agree with others you have to just learn to ignore it or you will waste a lot of energy tying and failing to make it fair.

In my experience these systems are commonly used to manage the behaviour of the children who struggle the most.
If you know your DS is a good kid I wouldn’t worry about the lack of points. He probably knows why other kids are getting them and he’s not.

My DD gets tons of points this year on class dojo because they award a point for each reading entry, given her head is constantly in a book she's getting a ridiculous amount of points - it has no actual affect on her behaviour. Then there's all class points, table points and occasional individual points - which when I ask her about she can rarely remember why she got. In essence, it's an ineffective system that I pay little to no attention to - honestly I would suggest you do the same.

Reward systems are trying to do something kind but I always find them incredibly unfair. But I'm not up for everyone is a winner in sports day type of thing either.

I am a parent of a son who due to difficulties never gets to have the celebration assembly or the top table lunch etc... and it breaks my heart to see all those other proud parents basking in the glory of their amazing child but it is what it is and I have to concentrate on my son being awesome in other ways.

My workplaces in the past have had things like this where you can get nominated for being a 'good egg' or similar by colleagues. Unfortunately I never received recognition here either despite believing that I am a good person. These things if you're on the wrong end of them can just make you feel shit. I try to just let it go.

I agree with a previous poster about the old stars in kids books being preferable.

Invested, yes. But to the point of obsessiveness that your child's "mastery" is not being recognised and rewarded, absolutely not.

I have 2 kids. They are both wonderful. DD is very confident and chatty and likes to please, as well as being academic. She constantly wins certificates.

DS is just as brilliant, great imagination, more academic than his big sister but not keen on sharing his thoughts to adults. He is kind and caring but wouldn't go and volunteer to help. He never got a certificate through nursery, Reception and yr1 so far. It's annoying, but he doesn't seem bothered, so we've left it and are praising him at home.

I don't love the system though. I likes the old system at our school where they got given a raffle ticket as a reward and then someone got a prize from the draw. It meant the more tickets, the better your chance, but everyone still had a chance and it was less obvious who was top.

OP, from experience let me implore you not to get invested in this points system.

DD was at a school where this sort of system became the source of so much competitiveness between parents and resulted in horrible bullying of DD which escalated unimaginably. I can't be too specific as it's too outing but if I could go back in time, I would never have allowed myself to engage or care about those wretched points.

Detach yourself from it because right now your child is uninvested and unmoved by it. I bet at the top are the same two or three kids every week. The children scoring those high points are likely locked in a competition with their peers. And their parents are likely engaged too, orchestrating how to win more points from behind the scenes - do this extra bit of work at home, ask for harder extension work, tell the teacher you've done x, y and z etc.

If you put value in this system it can only lead to unhappiness and constant feelings of not being enough when you're not on top for you both.

Step back and detach yourself from believing these points hold any value. They don't.

Teacher here. We got rid of the points system in my school about a decade ago, they don’t work for a myriad of different reasons. I’m surprised schools still use this.

Children who struggle with behaviour either, get used to the ‘celebrity’ of having no points, get given loads of points to encourage them, or have any self worth totally hammered out of them.

The children who follow all the rules get ignored because the system isn’t really for them. They either learn to roll their eyes and be quietly hacked off, end up disheartened, or start acting in ways to get noticed to earn points. They’re also usually the ones who most fear losing a point and get very stressed out over it.

This pop-science book is an interesting read on the subject: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Punished-Rewards-Trouble-Incentive-Praise/dp/0618001816

I’ve been teaching for years without a reward system and know that it is not the way to foster a positive class ethos, nor encourage children. We want our children to learn actions, attitudes and behaviours that make them feel fulfilled, help them to build friendships, and accomplish new things…whilst some actions have natural consequences. Points and rewards are just a distraction.

Your son doesn’t care because he has worked out the points are only for the kids that have behavioural problems and the teachers favourite. My friends 7 year old didn’t get an award all year and she asked him if he was ok. He said He won’t get an award because he isn’t naughty enough. Don’t get upset about it, it’s actually a good thing. It means you are teaching your son is very respectful and well behaved. Ask him which kids always get in trouble, those will be the ones with the points. That and the kids who are chosen for all the fun stuff.

I think you’ve got this the wrong way round.

You’ve won the dc lottery and ended up with an amazing kid who’s lovely, bright, academically capable, kind and well-behaved.

And you’re giving side-eye to the kid who has less of the above but has got some meaningless points which don’t even physically exist.

In a while, both kids will be going to uni and getting jobs. The bright, kind, hard-working attributes are definitely more helpful at this stage than class dojo points.

My son's school has class dojo. It's a flawed system because it's entirely based on the teacher remembering to give points and some children will stand out more than others.

Ds gets quite a few point but he's disabled and needs a lot of support so he is very much on the radar.

Our school do it as a class tho. So there's a in class target which if they reach each week three names get drawn out of a hat and they get a treat. There's also an end of term target that the whole class is rewarded for.

Ex teacher here. Your child sounds as though he is probably just doing all of the right things most of the time. What this means is he doesn’t need the system as a motivator like some of the other children do, and it’s less obvious because he is always good. There are children like this in every class and the 3-5 points a week will be where the teacher has on “oh shit I haven’t given any points to Jonah this week”.

Its not a bad thing really - it probably means he is doing really well and if he doesn’t care then I wouldn’t worry about it.

@AGoingConcern put it so well.

Sorry about my earlier comment OP. I totally get the constant concern about children in school. You just want them to do well.

I would like to say to the posters who criticise schools for reward systems and their limits (which are all points I agree with), you gave NO IDEA how hard the job is. The behaviour is deteriorating year on year. It's becoming impossible to teach.

Buy a copy of ‘Contextual Wellbeing: Creating Positive Schools from the Inside Out’ by Helen Street and send it to the headteacher with a note requesting that they review their behaviour policy in light of the wide ranging research that shows such systems are damaging to students and school cultures on many levels.

Also though, don’t get too hey up about it. Your child is fine.

Whether they are getting merit points or not has nothing to do with how well they are doing in school.

Disruptive kids get given them for not being disruptive for 30 mins. Quiet kids don’t get them for not being disruptive all day. Kids who struggle with spelling get them for getting 5/10 in the spelling test. Kids who get 10/10 week in, week out, don’t get them. Sporty kids get them left right and centre.

Honestly OP, this is not worth thinking about, let alone keeping yourself awake worrying about. Worry about reading, homework, maths, hobbies, friendship groups. Much more important than merit points.

Not always garbage unfortunately. The son of the head of the pta was lead in our school performances past 2 years, head of pta has now changed, and her daughter is somehow now the lead part.
I became a governor a few months ago, my oldest, after never having been picked for anything, was suddenly also a major part and in school council. She was thrilled, and I am proud of her. But it's a strange co incidence and the children do pick up on it, as soon as her friends learnt that I was a governor they teased her about 'what she would get'. It's a shame, as now she doesn't feel like she got it on her own merit, I try to reassure her that it's purely a coincidence but tbh I'm not convinced!