To be kept awake by class scoring system?

[PurpleRains]

I’ve been lying in bed crying, so I think I might be being ridiculous, but here goes…

I have a lovely DS, aged 7, Year 2. At parents evening a couple of weeks ago I was told there were no concerns academically, some of his maths is at mastery level, and he is a good role model to his classmates, he is calm, sensible and friendly to others. When he has play dates at other people’s houses I’m told he’s been a pleasure, and he’s invited back. In other words, I’m confident my child is a good kid.

Here’s my problem… 3 weeks ago, the school introduced a new points system. Previously it was some kind of chart at school, and when they reached so many points they were allowed to choose something from a range of stationery items. I don’t think my child got loads of points, it didn’t really rate high on my day to day life unless he wanted to tell me.

The new system is an app. I can log on at anytime and see throughout the day whether my child has been awarded any points. Points are awarded for “demonstrating excellent learning behaviours” in things like listening, curiosity, risk-taking, perseverance, independence, cooperation, and resilience. I can also see whether he’s been awarded them as an individual or if the whole class got the point.

So far my child is receiving 3 to 5 points per week, 2-3 points have been awarded to the whole class.

The child who scores the most points in each class each week, receives recognition in assembly and a certificate I think. So far the top scores in his class have been 18 and 24!

I’m taking this far harder than my child! (who doesn’t mention it unless I ask). I can’t decide whether to
a) feel upset that my child’s obvious brilliance is being overlooked 😉
b) feel I’m failing as a parent as clearly my child is not demonstrating sufficient excellence at any of these 7 key qualities
c) be annoyed that the teacher must be awarding around 150-200 points a week, which I take to be one every 10 minutes, when they could be focusing on other children.

I think mostly I’m taking it personally and feel my parenting is being scored every day, and it’s stressing me out more than anything!

AIBU to be upset and stressed by this scoring system?

Yes, it is Class Dojo. I completely understand what you’re saying, thank you. I am bothered by it, but I really don’t want to bother my son’s teacher over it because i appreciate they have many more important things to be dealing with. And because ultimately i probably am far more bothered by it than my DS is.

If it is Dojo how do you know other kids are getting way more?

In my experience, it varies a lot hugely but what I do find is that somehow the certificates end up with each child once per term :)

We had a merit system like this in school.

The kids who would get the most points were the genius level intelligent ones, or the ones who caused the most trouble (they'd get them on the odd occasion they were the least bit calm or good).

Everyone else would get very few.

Terrible system and very demotivating as a kid really if we thought about it too much. So we didn't.

It sucks, but hopefully you can get over it (obviously I mean they very kindly, as it does really suck).

Thank you. I’m sorry your DD was treated like that. I know you’re right, I don’t know why it’s got to me tonight. I think I’m used to be able to do something to resolve situations and actually there’s nothing I can do except change my own frame of mind, which is hard. I’m not going to speak to the teacher unless my DS feels he’s being treated unfairly.

This is the problem with teaching. It's not just the children who need nurturing and encouragement, unfortunately in some cases it's the parents too..
Time to grow up OP!!
And if you're that invested, get some past sats papers from Amazon and work on them together with your child- OR cry in bed about the lack of brownie points or whatever they are.
Joshing aside, if this is affecting you to this point, it sounds like you are being far too tough on yourself and it might be worth talking to someone, seeing your GP x

I don't understand why you can't ask in an are there areas where my child needs to focus a little more sort of way.

Ignore the "let's all hate the PTA" posts.

Gosh, sounds awful. I don't really have any apps on my phone so would fly straight over my head. Ignore.

Stop focusing on other children. By asking questions like that you risk making him feel he has to compete with others. Praise him for what he does and leave it at that.

OP, my children’s school has the same system. This week I accompanied one DC’s class (Y3) on a school trip. I observed a TA offering the worst behaved child in the class three points if he sat still on the train home. I am not sure my generally well behaved, academically achieving child has ever got three points in one go, and certainly not for something so basic as sitting still. However, the teachers have to use the tools they have at their disposal - in this case it was much more important that everyone got home safely (made easier if that child behaved and wasn’t taking all the TA’s time and attention) than that all the children felt they had a “fair” allocation of points.

Gently, your child is fine and not bothered so you really need to take a step back and not get so invested in this.

Unfortunately, it's the same with any reward system, tbh. None is ever going to be perfect and none is going to make every parent happy. The children who are always well behaved, always work well etc often don't get awarded the same number of points because their efforts aren't 'remarkable'. Or even efforts.

The conflict is always this.

I know teachers who give out dojos for 10/10 on spelling tests.

I don't do that because I know there are children like me in that room who won't have looked at them all week and still got 10 right and others, like my daughter, who practised every day and still only got 5 or 6. Who deserves the dojo more? The one who made no effort and just finds it easy? Or the one who tries their best all the time and still never achieves the desired outcome?

I do award achievement but I reward effort over achievement far more. Some parents might not like that because they don't feel their easy, bright, well behaved child isn't getting the degree of recognition they deserve (which results in questions like, "Who got the most dojos this week?"). But they dont see that their child is already benefitting from those attributes and qualities simply by having them and will receive recognition in other ways.

And then parents resent the more challenging children being rewarded for not behaving badly when their achievement behaviourally is still lower than we'd expect from most without considering it took that child had to dig deeper to find more effort, self control and more focus to behave moderately well for 20 mins than their their child has ever had to do.

Oh OP this stuff is stupid crowd control and pretty contemptible. Extrinsic reward. The points will be going to the difficult kids to try and tame them and th obviously loudly awesome all-rounders who they want to make into examples. It has always been like this. Let your lovely lad carry on being his authentic sale and be grateful this nonsense has no effect on him. This stuff is DESIGNED to encourage emulation and jealousy. It's working on you but not him, good for him 😂So you're not BU to be annoyed but it sounds like you and him are doing a great job so just let it flow off.

Seriously, cos of some stupid points? If there are problems she should be told by the school not left to deduce it from some points score. The child is SEVEN. It sounds like he's doing very well.

I don't hate the PTA they work hard for free. Doesn't mean everything they do is golden.

Delete the app. Get on with your life. No one is judging or measuring you - it’s extraordinary that you have seen this school system designed to encourage good behaviour as anything to do with you. It’s narcissistic behaviour.

Let your child enjoy his school life. Stop interfering and judging him. He is not an extension or reflection of you or anyone else, he is his own person.

It's the well behaved kids who miss out, the quiet ones who don't stand out. My ds rarely got any awards in school, no work of the week or gold awards at secondary school.

Not every child is from a loving family, that appreciate and raise them well. Some children have the most awful childhoods and this is a kind and sincere way of helping them to make good choices, to be educated without punishment and celebrated occasionally.

Nor all children require school validation, their needs are often met at home, and they feel secure and safe in themselves.
School systems like this one will make very little difference to settled secure children, but can make all the difference to a child that doesn’t have any decent role models and has not parented well/at all and is overlooked and neglected at home.

It’s not a score or an grade, so you’ll be better off letting go of that language. Class dojo points are positive reinforcement - it’s just an app-based version of a star chart or handing out tickets that can be traded in for a piece of candy or cool pencil after a certain amount. Frankly it’s not that dissimilar to the treats I toss to my dog when he follows my instruction or resists chasing a squirrel on our walk. It’s the (generally preferable) counterpart to handing out warnings that accumulate to lost break time or detention. Is intrinsic motivation usually more powerful than intrinsic? Of course. But it’s very difficult for schools to create intrinsic motivation in many students when it comes to low-level behavior and effort on dull tasks.

Some teachers will definitely use them more effectively than others, but kids also vary widely in how they respond. Some are highly motivated by that sort of reinforcement, some are fairly ambivalent, and for a small fraction it’s a net negative. The children who respond most positively will tend to collect more points because a)they put effort into getting them because they find them motivating and b)the teachers will note which students the system is highly motivating for and use it more for them. But this is individual variation is really the same for all behavior approaches. There is nothing that works well for every student.

Your DS is not upset, so it sounds like at worst he falls into the ambivalent group (though you could probably make it a negative for him if you’re not very careful). Your feelings are something for you to work through yourself, and you do need to work through them or this angst will continue to return as your child grows. Promise yourself you won’t ask about other kids’ points again; praise your DS for points he gets but that’s it. Acknowledge the feelings of insecurity around parenting but remember that those anxieties are just a natural part of being a parent who cares deeply and they don’t reflect any reality of your “performance.” Continually remind yourself that this is one data point among many others that are telling you that your DS is doing great, and it’s not a particularly meaningful or useful one.

We’re 4 years in to primary and I’m so sick of these sodding reward systems. It’s consistently the poorly behaved and the exceptionally bright who are rewarded.

My DC, who is slightly above average academically (but not at the level of some of the others), well behaved, curious and kind is ignored most weeks despite glowing reports at parents evening and performing well in tests. It’s confusing for them as they genuinely don’t understand what they’re supposed to do to be rewarded in the same way as some of the others. And then when they ARE rewarded it’s often so random that it’s a bit meaningless to them anyway.

Schools do have an impossible task here (and of course I understand and explain to DC that ‘good’ behaviour comes more easily to them than others, etc etc). However I do feel that these systems often do more harm than good to the ‘average Joe’ student- and it’s those students, who show up, work hard and do what’s expected that enable schools to function on a day to day basis.

This point system has been in place in schools for a very long time- used mostly to encourage the tricky kids to behave. Unfortunately by now having it on the app it’s highlighting how well behaved kids don’t do so well on it

Honestly OP, I would try to stop caring about the points system at all, and definitely stop asking your son about it.

I have three DC, they're in their teens now. They're all good, well-behaved kids who try hard at school but one of them always got a lot more points than the other two (and still does - they have achievement points at secondary school). It happens every year so it's not just that one particular teacher likes him. It must be something about the way he comes across to teachers?? It's great that he's doing well, but it has shown me that the system is a bit meaningless. Honestly there's nothing special about him compared to the other two!

You are too invested, yes.
The system at my son's school gave awards for 'trying to behave' as opposed to those who behaved most of the time - it was basically designed to help those who were struggling more and not those already doing ok/well.

Sure you can.

Perhaps explain you'd like to understand the system and how it's implemented a little better, so could they provide average scores for the class, and explain any exceptions.
The mode would be particularly useful.

If they're going to introduce a scoring system, they will be expected to be transparent with it.

Curiosity doesn't make you odd.
If you don't want to stand out, you could do a 'a few of us were saying we're confused, could you send out a communication?'

We have the same scoring system for DD(7), although it hasn’t kept me awake at night we have had some discussion around this as a family numerous times due to how it makes DD feel. They’ve done this scoring system since reception which has been less than helpful for building her confidence in a new school. My daughter is naturally bright, top group for her reading, phonics etc.
She never won the prize, never been at the top, however, those who struggle more repeatedly get more points/more prizes. I disagree that the points system should be there to encourage only this group of children, as the bright ones try really hard too! Gosh we have had many tears over this in the past 3 years from DD.

Yes to all of this!!!

It’s one of those things where the consistently good kids get very little, and those that need encouragement to toe the line get more. I’d make very little of it with your child.

School rewards systems are notorious for awarding points to kids who are normally poorly behaved but then follow one instruction at the first time of asking and it’s gold stars and extra playtime for them . Meanwhile the good, polite, dependable child who behaves well week in and week out gets nothing.