…to ask what to do about my former employer trying to ruin my life any way they can for their own amusement?

[Renegader]

Hi MNers,

Unfortunately back in September I was dismissed from my job due to failure of probation. This was the next working day after I took a few hours off which I requested TOIL to go the vet to seek an update on the cat I rescued from outside my workplace. My manager whom was very controlling and acted angrily to any kind of challenging of his ‘authority’ used this as a reason to fail my probation and dismiss me immediately. I sought legal advice and was told as I was in probation there’s not much I can do, even though I wasn’t even on a warning nor did I commit any kind of misconduct.

My weasel of a manager calls me after the charity manager dismisses me saying he was having a stressful day and didn’t think his boss would actually fire me even though he blew the cat situation out of proportion and knows she is very harsh. He said to give him as a reference for any future jobs and that he is so sorry about everything, so that’s what I did.

Fast forward to today and I get an email from a job I was due to start in a few weeks saying they are withdrawing the job offer as my former manager would only provide a basic reference thus raising a red flag for them. This was when he said he would give me a positive reference. I was good at my job and my clients I supported were very happy with me.

I have been in tears for most of the day, feeling completely powerless and hopeless about my future. Am I going to be blacklisted from this sector because I did a good deed and stood my ground about it? I need a job, this cat is expensive and I feel like my former manager and employer are trying to ruin my life. Because of their inept Payroll team I am also having my Universal Credit slashed by 20% as my employer took a Direct Earnings Attachment from my salary for a previous DWP advance then appear to not have actually sent the monies to HMRC as DWP told me they have no record of it despite the deductions being on my payslips. So, in conclusion, they sabotaged my employment with them, my benefits whilst out of work and now my future employment prospects. The most laughable thing is they are supposed to be a mental health charity but are doing everything in their power to push me to despair! Any advice on how to overcome this would be much appreciated, thanks in advance.

Maybe he felt terrible because of your mental health issues but, in truth, you weren’t the best employee?

I wouldn’t give you a good reference either tbh. I would do what PP suggested further up and leave it on a gap on your CV. Can you say you’ve been caring for a family member?

My last employer was public sector and would only give basic references. Managers were forbidden from doing more than this. I'd worked there for 20 years, too. It's possible that you dodged a bullet with that job offer, although it must be very upsetting.

It isn’t something I’ve ever done before, having to leave work suddenly, perhaps it doesn’t make any difference but it was my remote day and I worked a lot of unpaid additional hours in the weeks prior that I never was able to take back. In that workplace there was something called a ‘Wellbeing Hour’ that I would overhear people in other teams just ask last minute ‘Can I take my well-being hour now?’ then leave work without prior notice and it was never an issue for them so there was flexibility, just not for me it seems.

Whilst it is quite common to give a basic reference, your former employer would be within their rights to say that your probation was terminated due to you taking unauthorised absence & this is most probably what they have done “off the record”
. Ignoring your line manager and taking the time off regardless is not something that’s going to go down well with a new employer - I would have got rid of you too I’m afraid
The best you can do is miss this employer off your future job applications. Maybe go back to volunteering while you are applying for jobs so that the unemployed gap isn’t too big .

You don't seem to quite grasp what has happened.

I'm sure the people who asked for their wellbeing hour, albeit last minute, had their request granted.

You made a request and it was denied but you left anyway. There is a big difference.

A basic reference of job title and dates is standard all over different sectors.

I'm surprised that your potential future employer used that as a reason to withdraw the offer. Go to the Citizens Advice Bureau and ask for some support.

What happened on the day you rescued the cat? Did you take time away from work to buy the cage, catch the cat, bring her to the vet etc?

Then that's something you should've directly asked about, not just taken time off having been refused it. This may have been something only for employees after probation is passed.
Again unless you asked if you can buy yourself hours off through overtime, that point is irrelevant here.
It seems like you weren't happy there so it's no real loss. You just need to accept your own part in this story and stop viewing yourself as a victim here to allow yourself to truly move on.

I hope you can find something soon OP but you come across as quite naive about how the world works. You took unauthorised leave from an appointment that was not an emergency for a cat. Your old manager sounds toxic but you need to understand what the issue is.

Then it sounds like there may have been other issues and this was a job that was never going to work out for you.

Best to move on rather than rile yourself up imagining sabotage and a campaign of hate against you. In all likelihood this manager doesn’t give you a second thought and was not feeling inclined to do more than the minimum regarding a reference.

Nobody has sabotaged anything OP. You can't just go AWOL unless it's a genuine emergency. This wasn't. The cat was at the vet.

Your ex boss provided a dated reference. That's really standard and should be taken as neutral. In many cases, whatever the policy, a reference will be requested after the applicant 's LM has left so nobody can vouch for them personally anyway.

Did the other employer say exactly 'we are withdrawing this offer because we only received a dated reference'? I'd ask them for more information if so.

I work in the Civil Service, we only give basic references .. confirm name, job title, and dates employed.

There was a case a few years back where someone took an employer to tribunal, for a bad reference, and since then, lots of companies have only given basic references

I don’t know why posters are giving you a hard time over leaving work, OP. That was clearly the wrong decision but you were punished already by losing the job and it doesn’t fix your situation now.

Can you speak to your former manager about the DWP deductions though? If the company hasn’t paid DWP, then they should either refund you or make the payment to them asap. They aren’t allowed to just keep the money.

In the meantime, look for temporary work to tide you over and keep the gap on your CV to a minimum. If you make a good impression, the agency will be more likely to consider you for something permanent/longer term.

So there is no such thing as denying a leave request without a valid reason? Surely this then gives managers with a tendency to be bullies or overly controlling carte blanche to dismiss someone for something someone else with a different manager would simply get authorised in many cases?

Having the new job fall through is understandably extremely upsetting. But no, I don’t think they’re trying to ruin your career or anything similar.

A lot of employers actually have rules about what references managers can and can’t provide for current or former employees, so it’s possible he pulled back to comply with those rules or prevent problems with his own job if his boss was a dick. But he didn’t give you a bad reference, it was just a neutral one. That’s very, very common and most hiring employers expect to get neutral references from the most recent employer.

Honestly the most surprising thing about your situation is that the new job saw that basic reference as a red flag, but I suspect that’s because you listed your former manager specifically as someone who would give you a positive reference, and that’s what they were expecting. My guess is that if they had contacted him as a routine “call the prior employer and make sure they don’t say anything terrifying” check and gotten the same response it wouldn’t have been a red flag. But in truth it is concerning as a hiring manager if an applicant clearly expects a strong positive reference from a person and the reference I actually get doesn’t match that.

It’s shit that he offered to be a reference and then didn’t provide a positive one for whatever reason. I’d be angry about that for an evening but then shake it off and move forward. Don’t list him as a reference in the future. You don’t need to list that job on a résumé and depending on specific job application processes you may be able to avoid mentioning it entirely (be careful not to lie - if a form specifically ask for ALL jobs worked in a given time frame or an interview asks about your last job then be factual). You’ll find something else and put this issue completely in the past.

I don't think you are well suited to the world of work.

Are you able to reply, express your surprise over the reference (because he said he would write a good one) and ask whether, if you contact him and request a more detailed one, they might reconsider? some companies have a policy of only ptt re voiding job title and dates, so it may not be something he is permitted to do. If so, you could offer an alternative character reference.

Did the prospective new employer ask for your reason for leaving your previous employer? I know this is a standard question in many application forms. If so, what did you say?

It is quite possible that the reference request asked your previous employer why you left - and they would have to have said that you didn't complete your probation, and that's probably the reason the job offer was rescinded.

Ok, it might not have been the best setting for you so it's best to move on. Don't get bogged down in the unfairness of it all. You did mess up. Remember the lessons learnt on your side- confirm any leave through proper channels, don't take chances on probation- and move on to be even stronger at your next job. It's great to deliver well but you have to jump through these sorts of hoops too.

OMG 😂

So you asked for TOIL to go and check up on a cat who'd been hanging around your office and you were told no. What reason would have been appropriate to you to justify the refusal? Why should they have to give you a REASON? Surely, a 'no, not today sorry. should suffice. What did you expect them to say?

My large multi national employer would also only give a basic reference, even if you were employee of the month every month of your employment and they begged you to stay.

Weird this would be seen as a red flag.

I'd contact the potential new employer with alternative references e.g. your former volunteer role manager. Did they even specify that they wanted an extended or personal reference? It's very odd that they're expecting more than a basic reference if they didn't.

Don't worry about the gap in employment, it's not uncommon, say you went travelling, or were a carer, or were doing a house renovation.

Was Mind your ex employer? I've heard shit about them and know several people who left because of the bullying culture. Unfortunately the charity sector is not known for it's consistent good treatment of staff. Lots of underpaid, stressed staff, shit managers, massive workload. The odd good one if you're lucky. A very mixed bag in my 15+ years working in the sector.

No, they never asked me at any stage. I would’ve explained the situation if they had.

OP, you made a very poor decision. You absolutely did not need to go to the vets about the cat, and you disobeyed your manager. You were also still a probationer. Your manager has done nothing wrong. You need to learn from this experience and move on.

How much employment experience have you had @Renegader ? Unless things were very quiet in a work place, I can't imagine that many employers would agree that was a valid reason for emergency leave. To take a poorly / injured cat to the vet, yes, but not to make an in person visit to ask something that could have been said on the phone.