To expect parents in mid '70's to host Christmas with very young children?

[Birminghamx]

I’m one of three children , all of whom have two children. We’re all in late’30’s, early ‘40’s. Two, three years ago my elder brother and I hosted Christmas for our parents in turn, both feeling it was the time for the mantle to be passed to our generation. Our parents are in reasonable health but have some issues and of course have slowed a lot. We knew our parents enjoyed the ease and lack of responsibility when we provided Christmas. My sister is unlike us a single parent and last year invited herself for Christmas with her then 5 months old and just 2 year old and the baby was fractious throughout the 5 day stay. None of us live near one another and a Christmas visit means staying over. Our parents made light of it but I know through my mother’s friends that she was so exhausted after the stay that she cancelled engagements for a couple of days.

Now our sister has invited herself again and my brother and I think this unfair. Our parents are making light of it again and say they need to support her more as she’s single (though by choice). In fairness she can’t host as her flat is too small and our parents book hotels when they visit. Neither my brother or I can host parents and sister but both of us are prepared to invite her for New Year to try and resolve this amicably.

My parents are of sound mind so of course the decision is theirs. However I know they’re affected by an unpleasant breakdown in the wider family (niece/cousin) and are terrified of an estrangement with our (frequently difficult) sister.

Do you think my brother and I would be unreasonable to try and intervene, expressing our views to parents and sister that the proposed arrangements are too demanding on our parents. Our sister has already tried to counter arguments by saying they can buy “easy meals” and eat out (at my parent’s expense), though the reality is this matters little to the strain. Do you think we’re unreasonable in regarding mid ‘70’s as too old for hosting Xmas for several days with very young children?

Not sure if it’s already been suggested but can’t you alternate Christmas between the three of you so your parents get to spend it with each family and it’s only every 3 years they host your sister with strict rules of a 3 day visit as they are going away for new year. And probably by the second or third visit your parents won’t be up to hosting any more.

PPs see this as a problem because sister will spend two out of three xmases alone. Though maybe OP or DB should invite the parents at new year as a way of curtailing sister's visit to parents.

What IS this shitty version of Christmas? Siblings refusing to meet ever, trying to edge each other out from seeing parents... it's madness. In our families, each family picks a family location and then everyone is welcome. People skip a year for in-laws or travel, or a new baby; then there will be a separate family party on boxing day or earlier/later to give their gifts. In-laws on both sides operate the same way unless overseas. Friends operate the same way, unless overseas. A friend otherwise alone would always be invited. So who on earth are all these supposedly adult MNers plotting to block a sibling from having anyone to celebrate with? It's just so immensely nasty, I can't get my head around it.

We don’t go to DH parents/family for Christmas as they live almost 5 hours away and one sibling lives in a different country. We make the effort to see them other times of the year, I don’t understand the big deal with it being at Christmas?

I'm really not sure, my relationship with my brother is up and down, we're working on it. Our relationship with my husband's sister is even more difficult.

And I'm in my 30s, my parents are closer to the OP's age.

Maybe it's because I have some experience of being treated as the black sheep, excluded from things, judged for my decisions, told that other people know what's best for me better than I do, criticised and then had everyone act completely mystified when I distance myself from them.

OP's tone is dripping with condescension throughout.

Instead of her sister sticking up for her right to education and getting badly bullied, her sister brought bullying on herself which was inconvenient for her brother.
Instead of her sister doing well to deal with 2 very small children on her own, she has inflicted a fractious baby on her poor parents.
Instead of her sister having to deal with a difficult relationship breakdown, she has ruined her relationship with a lovely man because she's so difficult.
Instead of being determined and hardworking, she's portrayed as ruthless and disturbed in her pursuit of success.
Instead of praising her a great mother to her two children, OP just knows it's all going to go wrong when they are teenagers and will be ready to help her nieces deal with their nasty mother.

OP is doing her level best to put her sister in a bad light but her posts are littered with contradictions (can't get on with employers/ excellent career, difficult and impossible/ loads of friends, refuses to compromise/ has made suggestions including ready meals and takeaways to reduce the burden on parents) and double standards (when she doesn't come she's selfish and hurting her parents, when she does come she's selfish and hurting her parents) and I can see straight through her.

Your proposed arrangements would only be okay if either of you are only inviting your parents. You can’t invite your parents and brother (or him you), and leave out your sister.

You’re also being really weird about the kids. It sounds like you just can’t be arsed having little kids around and are framing it as them being too tiring for your parents. Erm what? 😳

I hope my post doesn’t come too late to help you. I am so sorry you’ve been given such a hard time on here. I am in my 60s and have a daughter who behaved similar to this. My other children thought we (DH and me) should be firmer with her and expect/insist on being treated better. As her parents we love her unconditionally and will always be there for her. Even if it takes a lot out of us. I appreciated my other children’s concern for our well being and understanding that we needed to do what we felt was right.

My advice to you is to not speak to your sister, let your parents do what they feel they need to to do and do what you can to support their decision. Just a listening ear, and knowing they have your support/understand their position will mean the world to them. The alternative is feeling like you’ve let all your children down. Trust me the worry of not having your sister for Christmas will be much worse for them than any stress caused by her visit. And if your sister follows the same path my daughter did - there is light at the end of the tunnel, it just took her longer to get there than her siblings. Hope you have a happy and peaceful Christmas xxx

As a 70 yr old gran who might need down time after busy xmas -I would rather have togetherness and cousins being friends with strong family ties after we have gone

So you don't want her to be part of any Christmases with your parents?

I doubt if op will be back - she frames her question as concern for parents but in fact shows no concern for grandparents wanting to see sister and family on Christmas day. And rubs salt into the wound by graciously saying she would "be prepared" to invite sister on new years eve (I wonder if sister would want to go). Fortunately the grandparents can make their own decision and this is as it should be - if op can help without excluding sister and nieces that would be nice.

I think so too

Back tracking CENTRAL!

You sound quite obnoxious, OP.
Perhaps have a re-read and a think.

Merry Christmas x

Definitely just leave it. It's up to your parents. If they are tired for a couple of days after it, it's not the end of the world is it? Presumably they are retired and can just rest after for a few days?

I feel most sorry for those little girls.

Your sister may well be a difficult person but my goodness, the way you speak about her is dripping with resentment and spite.

You blame her for trapping a man for 3 years to have her 2 children but he is a man of free agency. She could have had a one night stand or used a donor. It’s a short relationship but a relationship nonetheless.

You are delusional if you think those girls won’t realise how their mother - and therefore, by default, themselves - are viewed by their extended family. I find it hard to believe your nieces will be throwing themselves at you with thanks for hanging around to support them in their teenage years. What do you think you can offer them? You’ve said yourself that your sister good mother now and I don’t see why she won’t be in the future. Your nieces will realise how their aunt searched for every reason for them to be alone with their mum on Christmas. That’s not the act of a loving family. They won’t need you in their lives. Children don’t need family members who are so critical and judgmental of their parents.

There has been no evidence from the OP that the parents don't wan't to host the sister, or that they are so mentally deficient that they are unable to have any agency in this situation. The OP and her brother come across as control freaks that are demonising their sister,even going as far to predict the sister will be a terrible mother to teens despite the fact that she is showing no signs of being a bad parent; and blaming her for attracting bullies at school because she just wanted to learn. Everything the OP posts about her sister is dripping with venom, but with a massive undercurrent of jealousy. I don't think the sister is the bad guy here.

I don’t fully understand your post, you have missed out crucial information.
Where are you and brother and your respective families spending Christmas? With your parents or in your own respective households?

If it’s the latter, fine, but it’s up to your parents to decline having your sister and kids if they feel it’s too much.

If it’s the former then you are being incredibly unfair. So it’s ok for them to host you and brother and kids but to have sister and kids as well would be too much? You don’t seem to like your sister much and are talking about her as if she is some kind of pariah! Have your kids never been unsettled?

Sorry if I’ve misunderstood.

We are 70 and 71. We'd love to host christmas in our 3 bed house for at least one of our 5 childrens families. Sadly they all feel they cant travel over Xmas so its never happened so far. Maybe next year.

It comes across loud and clear that you want your full family...brother, parents all together at yours; very Christmas. Everybody in fact except your sister and her children. You don't want them and you don't want your parents to stay in their own home and host them. When people didn't go with your first presented thought that your parents are too old you then came up with more and more faults in your sister as reasons why your parents shouldn't host her. Why would your parents not host her if she has 'trapped' a man to have children. I am very glad my DD has not done that but although if she had I would be profoundly disappointed in her but why would even a fair judgement about that stop me hosting her? She would still be my daughter. That's the thing with parents ...in general we love our kids warts and all and if she is in a sad situation, even if of her own making, surely it's parents who want to support and help ....not the friends you say she could go to. I'm sure you will enjoy your own Christmas more if you stop trying to destroy your sister's. And even if everything you say is true, people in rheir70s (and older) are allowed to make their own decisions. Please don't make the Christmas arrangements with your mother and it's us or her situation. If you can't think of your sister think of how hurtful this is for your mother and how much angst she must be feeling, not wanting to leave your sister alone at Christmas and not wanting a fall out with you. It's upsetting that some of the personal comments have been harsh and I regret that this happens on these boards. I hope you can take the general consensus on board, let go of wanting to manage your parents Christmas and enjoy your own. 💐