To expect parents in mid '70's to host Christmas with very young children?

[Birminghamx]

I’m one of three children , all of whom have two children. We’re all in late’30’s, early ‘40’s. Two, three years ago my elder brother and I hosted Christmas for our parents in turn, both feeling it was the time for the mantle to be passed to our generation. Our parents are in reasonable health but have some issues and of course have slowed a lot. We knew our parents enjoyed the ease and lack of responsibility when we provided Christmas. My sister is unlike us a single parent and last year invited herself for Christmas with her then 5 months old and just 2 year old and the baby was fractious throughout the 5 day stay. None of us live near one another and a Christmas visit means staying over. Our parents made light of it but I know through my mother’s friends that she was so exhausted after the stay that she cancelled engagements for a couple of days.

Now our sister has invited herself again and my brother and I think this unfair. Our parents are making light of it again and say they need to support her more as she’s single (though by choice). In fairness she can’t host as her flat is too small and our parents book hotels when they visit. Neither my brother or I can host parents and sister but both of us are prepared to invite her for New Year to try and resolve this amicably.

My parents are of sound mind so of course the decision is theirs. However I know they’re affected by an unpleasant breakdown in the wider family (niece/cousin) and are terrified of an estrangement with our (frequently difficult) sister.

Do you think my brother and I would be unreasonable to try and intervene, expressing our views to parents and sister that the proposed arrangements are too demanding on our parents. Our sister has already tried to counter arguments by saying they can buy “easy meals” and eat out (at my parent’s expense), though the reality is this matters little to the strain. Do you think we’re unreasonable in regarding mid ‘70’s as too old for hosting Xmas for several days with very young children?

I hardly" insisted " that my sister had a wonderful childhood but I did say it and imo it's true. I can remember how happy she was, full of ideas and plans. I have far more evidence for saying this than some other posters have for their feedback. People can be both very difficult and estrange themselves from their families from good, caring families.

My mum has a very difficult sister who caused massive problems since the 1970s, so I get it can't be easy.

However, you seem to infantalise your parents quite a bit - suggesting that they go on a cruise and they be alone for Christmas, and "can't see how anyone would object" seems a bit wild to me. My mum wouldn't dream of a Christmas where she isn't in the company of family. Why isn't next year's suggestion that the sister comes to you and the parents go to your brother? The "maybe the parents should go on a cruise" suggestion is unnecessarily dramatic.

I'd just let your parents decide what they want for do, they are grown ups.

You're getting a hard time here @Birminghamx

Any grown woman who cuts herself off from her parents for 18 months because she didn't like a Boxing Day meal sounds unhinged, frankly.

You said she did that in one of your posts.

I also think that anyone who stays with older parents for 5 days (with 2 young children) needs to give their head a wobble.
It's just too long.

I have adult children and we see each other for just over 48 hours.
By that time, everyone is happy to get back to their own homes even though we all get on well.

IMO your concern is valid but maybe some straight talking is needed on all sides.

In your shoes I'd be talking to my parents and asking if they're happy for 'Mary' (your sister) to stay for 5 days as I noticed they were so tired last year. I'd suggest they laid down some boundaries along the lines of 'We love you being here but at our age 5 days is just too much'.

If 'Mary' is open to the same conversation, have it with her - or your brother could.

And next year consider an Airbnb but be warned they will start getting booked NOW for 2025.

I'd forget about the complicated family history and just focus on the fact that for most families, 5 days with kids in two is too long.

If your sis insists, she needs to roll up her sleeves and cook for your mid- 70s parents. On balance she comes over as being overindulged as a child and has turned into a bit of a spoilt-brat adult.

I understand your position a bit better in light of your updates, OP, and I can see why you don't want to spend Christmas with her, but most parents wouldn't leave their child and grandchildren alone over Christmas if they didn't have any other plans and that's pretty much the end of it, I'm afraid. Unless you're saying she poses an outright risk of deliberate harm to them then I think you need to leave them to it.

However, you seem to infantalise your parents quite a bit - suggesting that they go on a cruise and they be alone for Christmas, and "can't see how anyone would object" seems a bit wild to me. My mum wouldn't dream of a Christmas where she isn't in the company of family.

Posters jump to wild conclusions all the time here! Maybe if your mum is on her own fair enough but OPs are a couple.

I'm not as old as these parents but do have adult kids and grandchildren. I know that if we wanted to go on a cruise they'd not mind at all.

FWIW my own elderly parents and I have not spent Christmas day together for over 25 years because of the distance, a small house, and their increasing age.
It's not a disaster- it's one day and now we can all do video calls etc.

They can control how long she stays. Two or three nights- not 5.

It's not a jumping to conclusions. The Op said she doesn't see how anyone could object to the suggestion that her parents go on a cruise, I gave an example of someone who absolutely would reject that suggestion. Absolutely some people cannot think of anything better than a quiet time away in the sun as a couple, others wouldn't dream of it. The OP seems to think her parents can't decide for themselves. If they fancy a cruise, I'm sure they can come up with the idea themselves.

You're muddling up two different things.

The OP said no one could object to the suggestion to her parents to do their own thing. That's not the same as saying 'we don't want to be with you at Christmas'.

It's giving the parents the option to do whatever they want.

Also, she's not thinking her parents can't decide for themselves. This is what I meant about jumping to conclusions.

There is a difference between wanting to do something but feeling you have an obligation to spend it with your family.

Just because they've not done this before doesn't mean they aren't thinking about it or dreaming about it - does it?

It could very easily mean they feel obliged to host the single daughter and don't want to hurt her feelings.

Nothing to do with not having other ideas.

I dont know op, I think you'd do well to consider that given how you speak about her here, and your description of how you and your family speak about her , your sister knows well how you all feel about her. I mean you appear to be blaming her for annoying the boys in her class at school so that your brother had to keep her safe from what sounds like more than one person attacking her?

And maybe yes, maybe you care deeply about her and I hope you do but I really dont see how you will ever persuade her of that if what youve what you've written here is a true reflection of how you think.

I can't remember if distances have been mentioned before, but would anyone need to stay any more than one night (or even not stay over at all)? Why do we get obsessed with overnighting at Christmas, it really muddies the water.

The school bullying story was a bit startling, wasn't it? Imagine being a thirteen year-old in that situation, and your older sister blaming you for it. No wonder she stopped being 'happy and full of plans'.

She does sound difficult, so it's hard to see how telling her she can't join the family Christmas is going to do anything other than cause a rift. Which your parents don't want. So I'd suck it up.

I agree with this. And I realise OP gave the back story, including the "single by choice" thing because we asked, but tbh none of it really changes anything. It still comes down to "my sister doesn't deserve a family Christmas because she isn't a perfect victim and I don't like some of her choices". Everything is her fault, past the stuff she potentially actually is responsible for. Boys bullying her at school, her baby was fractious, plus the obvious judgement in things like where she chooses to live and the rather silly comment about how her work colleagues would be shocked if they saw her at her absolute worst during a family row. Is that not true of many people?

Sure, she isn't perfect, but she's also being set up to always be in the wrong no matter what, so why should she try to please you?

And as has been said over and over, your parents can make their own decisions about their relationship with her. It's hardly surprising if she isn't top notch with interpersonal relationships when her family doesn't think she deserves them.

A very sensible post, imo @Birminghamx and @BeautifulSkiez

Just a word of reassurance though: we, DH and I, live in a beautiful part of England, plenty of Airbnb's still available. 2 lots of wider family members have just booked up (fully refundable to a certain point) as they all come to us for Christmas and we live in a smallish, 3 bedroomed bungalow, so are already full up with adult children, late 20's, partners and very small grandchildren all staying for 5 or 6 days. Looking forward to it and yes, it will take us a few days to recover gently but so be it! All helpful btw

I absolutely agree with this, I've been thinking this while reading the whole thread. The parents are in their 70s and of sound mind. I can't see why they're incapable of deciding what they should do for Christmas. I also find this idea of them being 'too old to host' pretty patronising. My mum is in her 70s and I think she'd be insulted if I spoke that way about her.

We have a very difficult character in our family. I try to help my mum work out how to deal with that person when she asks and I give her emotional support when she's upset, but I wouldn't dream of trying to organise her interactions with him for her. She's an adult. At the end of the day it's up to her.

I also can't get over the fact that the OPs original suggestion was leaving her sister alone with no family other than two small children over Christmas. The whole of the rest of the thread seems to be trying to justify this. Yes the sister sounds difficult but if she's trying to make amends and develop a good relationship between her kids and their grandparents then telling her to sod off over Christmas just seems wrong. Unless the fear is that she's going to be abusive to her parents over Christmas, but the OP's biggest concern at the start of the thread is that her parents might get tired.

If she doesn’t have the space and they will be too exhausted why don’t they just book a restaurant/ pub? Honestly don’t understand why families don’t just talk to each other. It’s not that hard

It just gets worse and worse. Your hard-working sister was rightly upset that her learning was being disrupted by bad behaviour, and because of this was singled out for violence by a group of boys, and your issue is that your brother had to deal with the inconvenience of protecting her.

Then you tell this bizarre story about Boxing Day, obviously entirely from your perspective, and expect us to believe there was nothing more to it, despite the fact you are openly and obviously horrible to your sister. And don't try and say you're not, I'm not assuming or extrapolating anything here, the behaviour you have described and the way you speak about her is horrible.

And you keep coming back to how your parents are too old to host. My Mum (65) is retired, my Dad (71) is working, supposed part-time but in reality covering at least 40 hours a week. And as a HOBBY in their spare time they RUN A B & B. A B & B with a Booking.com rating of 9.9 and considered the best in the area by quite some way.

They have 4 or 5 people staying most weekends, and have been inviting my daughter over for weekly sleepovers since she was 2. My husband also has a "difficult" sister, and his parents are not in the picture. My parents have invited his sister and her son for Christmas every year (although this year will be the first time she's taken them up on it) despite the fact they are no relation to her.

When my adult children come with their partners for Christmas they all get into the kitchen and help - in fact I have to shoo them away as there's not room!

Although they won't want the single daughter to be on her own they may like to discuss ahead of the day how long she'll stay. IF they find it tiring.

I agree that 75 is hardly old nowadays.

IMO arriving on the 23rd or even the 24th and leaving on the 27th is long enough, but depends if she's relying on trains or driving.

Easy enough with a partner. Who do you suggest should have been holding her "fractious" 5 mo baby and supervising her 2 yo whilst she was in the kitchen cooking?

The weirdest thing for me is that the parents (unless I've missed it) haven't even said they're unhappy with the current arrangement. They didn't even say they were unhappy with the previous Christmas the sister spent with them. OP seems to have decided they were too tired based on information she received from the parents' friends.

OP you could ask your parents whether they're happy to host your sister for 5 days, maybe they are looking forwards to it. Try asking them what their ideal Christmas would look like rather than trying to work it out for them?

OP, if you are the golden child (which I suspect you may be), your sisters upbringing will be very different from yours, to say you grew up in the same household and she had a happy childhood doesn't mean an awful lot, when you grow into adolescence and adulthood you start to recognise that pattern for what it is (your family not thinking you are good enough for a start because of X,Y,Z), it is very much a damaging dynamic within a family and can lead to a lot of resentment in later life.

She is your sister and you should love her unconditionally, she is who she is and you shouldn't be trying to police the relationship she has with your parents, as a golden child you see that as your 'job', and your mum 100% encourages that, by confiding in you about your sister (but not speaking to her directly herself about it), and you and your mum secretly trying to diagnose your sister with a personality disorder, because you are so sure there is something wrong with her?? Lots of what you have said here fit the pattern.

You don't seem to see anything wrong in your actions because you firmly believe that everything you do is right and everything she does is wrong.

The fact that she disappears for a while after "absolutely nothing has happened"' in your words is quite telling, I'm sure she will have a very different perspective on those events, yet you are using it as another reason to bash her over the head with it.

My sister had a wonderful childhood,

Odd thing to say about someone else. Surely the only person who can judge how "wonderful" their childhood was, is the person themselves.

Glad your parents live close enough for you to have that choice.
Ours live abroad and with travel costs, hotels are not a viable option.
However, we do do all the cooking etc when there for the set of parents who struggle.

I completely agree!

Would the sister agree? If she says otherwise, then who is right?! Surely only the sister can decide that!

How does she manage at home on her own to cook?
Babies sleep a lot, they have chairs to lie in, there are two able grandparents to keep an eye on them.