SIL Christmas - can't put into words why its winding me up

[Lanzarotelady]

So Dh is one of 2, he is the youngest, since his dad died 23 yrs ago, we have had his mum ( and Sister ) for Christmas day ( on the years we went to my mum she still came ) When his mum died 2 years ago ( coming up to the 3rd Christmas ) we have still had his Sister for both of those.

We go to my mums on Xmas Day, yes she is 78 but she has a bigger house and she can't get up/down my drive, she gets a lot of help to do this from my brothers

But this is what is winding me up and I cannot articulate why, we still have to take my SIL with us.

She is 60, still working, but single, has a wide circle of friends, nieces etc, is working f/t but she will not make any other arrangements.

Now of course, I won't leave her out, I won't see her on her own etc, but when she comes if we ask her to bring a trifle she will bring one and one cream, there will be 14 of us, she will bring some biscuits - surely common sense dictates you bring more than one bloomin trifle

I don't know why, but its really starting to bug me, why can't she start to widen her circle, start to make her own plans,

I think what really annoyed me, she recently had a meal at a restaurant to celebrate her birthday, invited all her family and friends, but not my mum who has invited her to everything!

No it doesn't make you a bad person.

I don't think it's such a thing that your Mum wasn't invited to her birthday meal.

If your Mum really doesn't want to invite her to stuff then she needs to stop!

Tell he what she needs to bring rather than stewing about it!

Brother in law is very anti social, I also made it clear when MIL died I wasn't taking another waif and stray on! BIL wouldn't come if we did invite him, he isn't sociable at all

Ask her to bring enough trifle/dessert and biscuits for 14. If she doesn’t, don’t invite her next year.

And I think your DH needs to pull his finger out of his arse. It's his bloody sister!

How on earth can he think this is your mum's problem! No way! he needs to talk to his sister about an appropriate amount of food for her to bring and that a thank you gift for hosting would also be nice.

But if she isn’t socially aware then that just means you need to spell it out? -
“SIL can you be in charge of the wine (we’ll need at least five bottles for all of us) this year?” or
“Don’t worry about bringing a bottle this year, X is sorting the drink. Can you be in charge of trifle for 14? That’ll be about 3. Thanks.”

It’s not rude.

When my SIL was single we had to include her in everything, and she has very deep pockets and short arms. She has never once bought me a birthday or Christmas or hosting gift, nor my young DC. She has loads of money because she gets everyone else to pay for her. She never brings wine, but drinks it.

One fed up Christmas I asked her to bring dessert for 8, and she bought a £2.99 trifle from Tesco that fed 2.

Now she’s is a serious relationship we never hear from her. If she ends up single again, I won’t be inviting her over. We are seeing PIL before Christmas this year and I haven’t invited SIL and I’m not cooking for her another day. If she wants to meet, we can do it in a restaurant and she can pay for herself.

I once reluctantly invited her to something expensive and she thought I’d bought her £150 ticket, and asked if I got one for her BF too. It was one of the most assertive responses I ever gave in my life when I messaged her back.

Cheeky fuckers all round. You need boundaries. I’d start giving her hints about christmases away in the future, but make sure she doesn’t think she’s going too.

I think Christmas can be a bit different to other occasions for single people, because it's such a strongly family oriented occasion so the friends that are available at other times of year have family commitments.

I also think assuming that your Christmas plans will be the same as they have been for 20 years is fair enough, and I think it's very nice that your families have blended to include everyone.

Definitely be more specific when you ask her to bring something though.

I don't think it does make you a bad person in the least.

It's just rather like those people-pleasers who simmer with unexpressed resentment of some service they render to some unaware friend, and who then explode with disproportionate rage with huge fallout, because the friend has no idea that someone who has apparently willingly done something for years has been hating every second and feeling that the friend has been unappreciative.

It just sounds as if neither you, your DH nor your mum is prepared to tell her she's not invited this year, although a situation that is certainly bothering you and your mum will continue indefinitely if you don't.

Sounds like her not inviting your mum to the birthday is what's spoiled the relationship. She's been treated like family and welcomed by your mum for years, but doesn't reciprocate. Not very nice, and it shifts the dynamic to her looking like a freeloader. That said it's probably not conscious on her part and could be a bit cruel to cut her out at this stage? I'd say suck it up for now. You might feel better for having vented here. And absolutely tell her how many people dessert/wine is for. My DP would do something equally ridiculous and I've just given up on assuming he'd use common sense.

But you’ve had 23 years to establish that she hasn’t seen it that way, and no-one has told her. She may think that she’s bringing a trifle as a contribution to a range of puddings (Xmas pudding, cheeses, Xmas cake, Xmas log or whatever), rather than being expected to take responsibility for puddings to feed 14.

be really clear about what it is you want her to bring. If it’s a change from what has gone before then so be it. But she won’t change her contribution if no-one talks to her about it!

I agree though that is was a bit ungracious if her not to invite your mum, but perhaps she only sees her once or twice a year and so it didn’t occur to her

I think if she wants to spend Christmas with her DB and you get to have every christmas with your mum, I'd suck it up for now and if your mum passes away (hopefully not for a long time!) you can switch things up then. You say she's not offensive and she's diluted by 13 other people. I would however specify exactly what you'd like her to bring as her contribution, making it sound like you're allocating what everyone should bring. You could just say in a text something like "We're asking for specific contributions this year as Mum is getting on and we want to ease the burden on her with the shopping/planning and cost. Please could you bring 3 trifles (to serve 14 people), 3 pints of double cream and 3 bottles of wine. thanks!".

If she's been attending dinner at OP's Mum's house for 23 years, she will know how many people will be there for dinner, or at the very least, should be able to make an educated guess.

My half sister is like this, only worse in that she never brings anything, no food contributions, no drinks, no presents for my kids, yet expects presents for hers. It's downright rude - I would never be invited anywhere for Christmas dinner and not think to ask what I could bring. Luckily for her, her eldest (18) is an absolute sweetheart and has already messaged me to ask what she should bring and what would her cousins like for Christmas.

Adults like this really irritate me , someone’s husband in our friendship group acts like a teenager but it’s not just them that irks me its the way they are pandered to.

ive been trying to work out what emotion it surfaces in me as my irritation is not proportionate, it’s not personal affecting me. I think it’s because I always had to be a grown up even as a child and I’m expected to be competent by others and that’s a big part of my personality or what makes me me and I’m probably jealous that they don’t have those demands placed on them.

but do I want to be as helpless as that person crikey no.

Xmas is a tricky time. As people want to be with family and it sound like your SIL only has her brother. If your mum doesn’t object to her still coming, then please do try to make that work. It isn’t about her not being grown up or having a life of her own, it’s about family at xmas

BUT, she is old enough to not to expect being waited on hand and foot, and to pull her weight. So be grown up too, sit down with dh and lay it out to him that you expect SIL to bring the following items that are enough to feed 14, not just a blimmin trifle and cream. Ask her to contribute towards the expensive alcohol by bringing some specified bottles (tell her you need her to bring x, y, z ), or “do” the cheese board, (agian tell her what you need on board as people are fussy around their favourite). Also tell dh to tell Sil that she needs to muck in with washing up, drying, cleaning etc…if she doesn’t already. This needs to be put to her in context that your mum is much older now, and she can’t do the prep she used to be able to do, and can’t afford to keep feeding all those people (or whatever, lay it on with a trowel a bit)

You need to call this out. But only by saying “you need to bring this or do this”. It’s better coming form dh, but if he’s useless at being spepcifc, you need to grab it and do it- that’s fair as it’s YOUR mums home and your mum that’s hosting.

sometimes we all getting very fixed in our own rituals for Xmas. I found that Covid period shook these up, then my own divorce. I’ve had to learn thst some Xmas I’ll be on my own now, and sometimes with family. I’ve actually realised it is differently quite nice to do something different each year, after 30 years of doing same thing with exh and kids. but we all have to find the space to do that, and the burning platform like Covid. If Covid didn’t shake her form thst (why was she still visiting your mums over those xmas?), then I think she’s stuck in rut until your mums situation changes and it’s untenable for her to continue to host. The only other option is for sh and you to go it alone one year to break the ritual she has 😱🤷🏼‍♀️

We have the same extended family round the table every year, she has no reason to think she isn’t part of the tradition / habit you have all built up.

But she is seriously lax on the contribution front. It is hugely expensive, hosting Christmas. And serious work. I make and take the vegetarian main course for 2 meals, to go alongside the turkey and beef, make a huge Christmas cake and take all the wine for one meal when we go to my siblings house. And do a big share of washing up and prep. And leave whoever hosts with a really nice bottle of gin or whisky.

But you ARE her plans. It's not unusual that she wants to spend Xmas with her family (her brother and by extension her in-laws). Don't you consider her part of the family?

And yes if what she's bringing isn't enough then just tell her directly to bring more!

I just think she could start to make her own plans, rather than relying on us, yes I know that makes me a bad person

But surely she's spending Christmas with her family, as are the rest of you.

I think that as a PP has pointed out, it's not weird to default to immediate family for Christmas, especialyl if it's become tradition.

I'd also say unless she socialises regularly with your mum outside of Christmas, it's not that odd that she didn't invite her to a big birthday. My in laws and parents/family have spent Christmas together at regular intervals over the years, in various forms and generally get on quite well, but I wouldn't expect SIL to invite my Dad to a big event nor for my sister to invite my MIL. It's like Christmas is this weird little pocket of unique interaction?

However, I suspect what's really winding you up, legitimately, is that she is so passive and unhelpful about the whole thing. So ungenerous and miserly and entitled. We have family friends near my parents who have spent most christmasses with them (and whichever of their respective children are around ) for the lat 25 years It is now estabnlished as a colloborative effort. Everyone contributes. Wine and food flow etc. She shouldn't need to be told to bring more than one bottle of wine or a large trifle or some small contribution or gift for your mum. So I don't blame you for being annoyed. She appears to be taking advantage of your mother.

I would 100% say something to her, casually. "Right SIL, mum has done this all herself for years, she's getting on. You bring dessert for everyone so we can take that off her plate, and can you bring a couple of packets of biscuits or chocolates for after too? I'm bring some bubbles and red wine - why don't you bring a couple of bottles of white?"

If it's any consolation, I have an eldery distant relative who has the same problem with her own CHILDREN. Drives her mad. Even worse, they dictate what she can serve. She abandoned the whole thing a few years ago and now either takes them out for Christmas or does a M&S pre-made order and shoves it all in the oven!

One thing I’ve realised as I’ve got older, and probably too late, is that no one gave a shit about my Christmas. It was all about what others wanted. So, my parent would let me know the week before if they were coming which would be only if they didn’t get a better offer. My in-laws would throw a massive tantrum if we didn’t include them ( and rude, entitled SIL) on Christmas Day, even if mine were here. Well, until PIL got a better offer, or went on holiday and only let us know in Nov when it was too late to go away, or book a restaurant. My DH didn’t want the wrath of his mum, but it was ok if I had a shit time though by doing all the work.

Then I realised that no one in my household was happy, not me or the DC. So, I said fuck it, this is what we want this year. I’ve told everyone I’m working and can’t host and we are doing what we want. I’m planning my christmases in future.

Who cares about your Christmas OP? Who cares if you are happy? You need to say, well OK this year SIL is invited, but next year I want to do X, and stick to it.

I’ve been a martyr too long.

That’s the irritant. Why does the op have to tell her, she’s an adult. Why does the op have to be more competent whilst this woman just opts out. It’s fruitless thinking like that I know but I get the irritation.

Oh, and I just want to add that my sister has been known to comment disparagingly about her own in laws vs mine for similar reasons. My MIL, if invited to Christmas or some other occassion, turns up with a hostess gift, contributes to the overall event if it's Christmas, and will ensure that any young children receive small token gifts from her. My sister's in laws are so parsimonious they'll turn up for a 3 day visit with a bottle of non alcoholic wine, complain constantly that there's too much food, and regularly don't buy their own grandchildren gifts!

It's very nice of you to include her.

I think all families have the odd auntie that show up at Christmas without enough trifle for everyone and irritate the fuck out of people. Just part of families and Christmas time. But annoying! The 'auntie' in our family actually divorced my DB decades ago but since he died and she's on her own we include her. She's kinda rude. It is what it is.

You have just drip fed another sibling.... so most of the starting advice was on a basis she had no other immediate family ... at least give full relevant context or ppl waste time giving advice.