Newborn, DH threats to not help anymore

[MincePieFan88]

I'm losing my mind and need to write this down. I have a 12 week old baby (ok technically not a newborn anymore). In the early days, DH was brilliant. He did every nappy change, night wakes, he was down in the trenches with me, supporting me with breastfeeding, did everything all the books say he should do. He was great, super patient, I fell in love with him all over again tbh.

But that's slowly tailed off. He still does loads with baby but very little around the house (he does cook dinner but cleaning up the mess takes twice as long). And I'm struggling. Every single time we have an argument (over really minor stuff), he says "well, if you think I'm so shit, I'll just stop doing anything". Earlier today he said this in response to me asking him to do something, not even arguing actually.

He came back a few times from work and socials with stories about other men he knows who do nothing. How X and Y also have babies and they never wake up at night and never change any nappies. Like he's some hero for watching his own son.

The whole undertone is about how I should be grateful for anything he does.

He also told friends at the weekend that last Friday he had his first night out since DS was born. Total lie. He's been out drinking once a week, every week, since week 2. I was too stunned to pull him up on it.

It's just making me feel so shit. I feel totally alone and worthless and like I've made the worst mistake of my life.

Before any mysoginistic pricks come at me telling me I should do it all, note I make 2x his salary (and my mat leave is fully paid) and he has an easy office job, he's home at 4pm on the dot every day. He even has time to train for a fucking marathon right now. He's not some emergency worker doing 80 hour weeks swept off his feet, with the entire financial burden on him.

Well yes, babies don’t know what stereotypes are but thankfully we do and we are not back in caveman hunter gatherer times - parenting and society has moved on. Babies needs can be met by both parents regardless of gender, babies need secure attachment and love - women sacrificing themselves because of sexist assumptions is not conducive to that. It has obviously skewed your thinking further as you seem to think the OPs partners behaviour is okay when it is obviously abusive - stonewalling and making threats. We accept what we think we deserve I guess and I’m glad the OP is considering that she deserves better.

What made him change? Do you think it was his colleagues’ influence. What a rubbish attitude to have.

I wish people would stop suggesting couples counselling. The OPs OH is using manipulative and abusive tactics to get his way - stonewalling and making threats is unacceptable. Couples counselling is contra indicated in such instances and would give the wrong impression to her partner, who needs to get a grip and stop behaving like a pathetic man child. It is concerning if his so-called mates have ‘got into his head’ with sexist bollocks too, he’s not a empty headed automaton and should be able to discern the information he hears rather than mindlessly internalise it! So many male apologists on the thread, the bar really is so low it’s on the floor.

The OP sounds like a strong, financially independent woman. She doesn’t need this rubbish in her life. He needs to shape up or ship out.

I'm sorry OP.

His behaviour is not acceptable.

However, I don't think that contemplating divorce when your baby is 12 weeks is sensible. It's too much of a knee-jerk reaction even if you feel like that today.

I'd never stay with a selfish man, but relationships need to be worked on before throwing in the towel (I know only too well - married 35 years but ups and downs.)

He sounds immature - is he? Laddish?
How old is he?

I know you have spoken to him already but I'd suggest you make time to sit down and discuss- seriously- where your relationship is at now. And what needs to change.

I'd make a list of what you're unhappy with and talk him through it.
Ask him if he can see your point of view.
Lay down some expectations.

Also consider couple counselling. Being in front of an impartial person like a counsellor can be eye opening when all of this is out in the open.

Also, if you've got the cash, get some help. A cleaner maybe to come in once a week?

I'm not excusing his behaviour at all. But his behaviour and emotions need unpicking. Maybe he too feels he has 'lost' his old self and is taking comfort with his laddish mates.

You both need to talk to each other.

Small babies are hard work but your DH has been helping a reasonable amount. A few minor arguments along the way are normal. I do wonder about his job and his colleagues, it sounds as though they are a bad influence on him, the sort of men that women who want children should avoid. Wait until he calms down and tell him how much he upset you, but also acknowledge what he has been doing. It is not worth separating over a heap of washing up, however annoying. Let your household standards slip for the sake of the baby, and a better relationship with your DH.

@Plastictrees With respect, you're not qualified to dismiss couples' counselling. What is on this thread is a snapshot of their life.
I hate these platitudes about 'you can't have counselling because he's behaving like X...'
That's for a professional to decide once they are working with the couple.
Not anons on a website.
When a child is in the middle of all of this, couples should try anything.

No one is being a 'male apologist'.
Your post is too black and white and doesn't allow for real emotions.
I hope to God you aren't a counsellor!

I’m a psychologist. Couples counselling is contra indicated where there is abusive behaviour present, this is because the counselling can make the abuse worse. I am qualified to dismiss this, as is anyone who has read the guidelines around couples counselling.

This is toxic beyond belief. Truly only an absolute bastard would be difficult about warming up a meal for his wife while she’s feeding his baby.

It definitely sounds like he’s listened to a few too many Andrew Tate arselickers and it’s tapped into an existing sense of entitlement in him.

I personally could not live with this. I would have one conversation with him where you lay it on the line that if you and your baby aren’t his priority, and if he isn’t going to behave as an equal when it comes to parenting and the household, and if he isn’t going to respect you and show you care, the marriage will quite simply be over and he can be another addition to the hordes of lonely men poisoned into sabotaging their own relationships by misogynists hiding their own inability to relate to women behind proclamations of male superiority.

A psychologist is not necessarily a counsellor. I have many friends who are counsellors.

What sort of psychologist? Chartered? Working in what? Lecturing? BACP qualified?

You're too quick to fling around words like 'abusive' for what are everyday rows and yes, unacceptable behaviour. You're suggesting closing a door on something that may work and won't necessarily lead to more abuse.

@MincePieFan88 he's an idiot. He's letting his own ego destroy his marriage while letting weaker men influence him.

If he is not contributing in a meaningful way then what purpose does he serve?

This is how some men 'train' their partners. The weaponised incompetence combined with focusing all on how he feels and how he can't do anything right so why bother.

You'll end up doing it all anyway. The housework, child care, life admin and the full time job. The anger, frustration and resentment will kill off the love and because he is basically another child, you won't want to be sexual with him either.

He is ringing the death bell and he doesn't even know it.

Sit him down and warn him that if he doesn't go back to being your partner then he has no place being with you because you don't need another man-sized child to raise.

His behaviour is pathetic, childish and very selfish. If you are going to end up on your own anyway then you may as well cut the cord now and get rid of him so you can have your life settled by the time mat leave ends and you go back to work.

Oh, and the silent treatment IS abusive. Grown ups in healthy relationships don't need to 'punish' their partners like this. He is teaching you to grovel to get his attention even when you were the one in the right anyway.

His behaviour could cause you so much stress that it effects your ability to breastfeed.
The reason for this is hormones. If you don't feel safe this can contribute to problems with producing milk and then contribute to mastitis etc.

You need to take control of the current situation. What the Jones' are doing is of no concern to you or him.

In your situation I would probably invite a male family member who is hands on to teach him the ropes.

I think the issue is that he now thinks he's done his bit to society and he doesn't have the right role models to look up to and challenge his perspective.

Also sulking and silent treatment are forms of domestic abuse.

@BeautifulSkiez The NHS has clear guidelines that couples counselling is not to be used in cases of DV and abuse. I'm unclear whether you're a counsellor (or not) but offering the service anyway could be in breach of your legal responsibilities to safeguarding the patient & many agencies / bodies could blacklist you for that.

Well, why should they step up when there is always some woman out there who will accommodate them with sex, a home, financial support and kids?

Until women permanently raise their standards and stop picking up the slack for these men-children, the men-children have no incentive to do better.

It's infuriating. Especially when one thinks about who raised men to be this way.

No I am not a counsellor. I am a HCPC registered Consultant Clinical Psychologist who specialises in trauma. I supervise counsellors and therapists.

Stonewalling is recognised as emotional abuse. Making threats is also abusive. Men are more likely to become abusive during a partners pregnancy and when the baby is born than any other time. Abusive behaviours often first occur at this vulnerable time which leads women to doubt and question themselves. This behaviour can escalate and get worse. I am not going to minimise or dismiss the OPs experience in order to pacify someone who blatantly needs to educate themselves.

Christ. This is utterly toxic, OP. You don’t deserve this, OP. I’m all for counselling in marriages, but I’m sceptical that someone like him (on the face of it from this limited post) would take it in. I would, however, try it, so you can know you did all you could.

There are a few posts here blaming the influence of his friends or colleagues… I don’t think that even touches the sides of what would be a reasonable excuse. The kind of person who lets the opinions of friends and colleagues alter the way he thinks of and cares for his own child and wife, who are supposed to be the loves of his life, is weak, selfish and immature to the core.

Look up fair play (designed by psychologists) to explore how the burdens of household can be managed equitably. And see if he is open to discussing this - society is so complimentary of men who do anything that he may need a clear discussion about roles and responsibilities. If he’s not interested then you have bigger issues… but my guess is if he is lying about how much he does he has a sense that it’s not being fair. Also marathon training with a 12 week old?!! Someone (you) is paying the price for that stupidity!!

But it’s cause and effect isn’t it. By and large, men like this will raise sons like this. Women who accept this raise daughters who see it as acceptable. That’s an awfully large and robust social conditioning barrier that is not going to be dismantled by ‘women’ suddenly and inexplicably raising their standards.

Yes, agree. I’d get an au pair/live in nanny, go back to work, and tell the guy to leave if he doesn’t want to participate in the raising of his own child. He will then have plenty of time to run his marathons if that is more important to him than being a dad. Getting on OP because she asked for her lunch to be warmed up whilst she is breastfeeding? Geez louise, that is awful.

Completely agree. I'm baffled as to why people are suggesting it.

His behaviour is awful and I suspect it's part of a longer term plan to wear OP down into submission.

If you can afford to leave him leave. He won’t change. Hire a home help / nanny and be properly supported.

I think lots more info has come out in comments that changes the narrative quite a bit!

It will only get worse.
start gathering financial papers etc and if by the summer you aren’t happy and he isn’t being the parent and partner you hoped for leave him
dont have another child with him.

I had a somewhat similar experience with my partner when we had our first. I felt like he was leaving everything to me and expecting a pat on the back, he felt like I was being controlling about how things with our daughter were done and that I didn’t trust him. I think with hindsight we were both just exhausted and we weren’t giving each other a bit of grace (note I say both of us). We had some discussions about it, we both made changes to our behaviour and I feel like it’s all worked out well.

At the moment you are most likely both very tired and stressed out. Whether you recognise it or not you’ve probably been fairly short with each other. If he’s saying you think he does everything wrong he could just be gaslighting you and trying to get out of doing anything. It could also be that you have been constantly trying to offer benefit of your experience on how to do certain things while sounding irritated or short and that he’s very much hearing as constant criticism/lack of trust. Only you really have any idea if the second is a feasible option.

If so think you need to make it clear you feel hurt, angry, overwhelmed & whatever else and you think maybe OH is also having some of those feelings. Explain you want to look together at how you can resolve the issues making you feel that way and work as a better team moving forward because this is a really busy and tiring phase of life and you need each others support.

It’s definitely worth sitting down with something like Fair Play as a help and discussing what household/family tasks you have and what would be a fair division AND what free time you have and what would be fair in terms of how that’s used. Try not to get into unfairness of what’s happening now and focus on how the future should look. If the way things are now are the barrier to getting to the desired future state that will become apparent very quickly. So, for example, if in the week there is really only the opportunity to free up a couple of hours a day for leisure on average then it would clearly be unfair if he both uses one of those each day for his marathon training and then uses another 3/4 going out one evening a week. It would also be very clear that to facilitate you getting your time he needs to give up some of his.

I hope it turns out this is just a blip with you both being tired and ratty with each other and you are able to resolve it. If it’s not that and your OH is totally unwilling to make changes then you need to think about whether you are prepared to continue as you are or if you’d be happier going it alone.

Has it? It was clear to me from the OP that he's abusive.

Comparing himself to dads who do nothing like it’s a race to the bottom?! Fucking hell, he should be disgusted in those men not using them as a baseline.

He will never get better, I would be taking steps to leave. You and your child deserve so much better, there is no benefit to being in a relationship with him.