To just give them what they want

[Tetherrrrrr]

I'm at the end of my tether with my children, aged 8 and 5.

Every evening ends up with them shouting and crying and complaining and slamming doors.

The reason for this is that I ask them to unpack their schoolbags, do their reading, and eat a healthy meal. While I'm cooking they have half an hour to watch the television.

And it's nothing but complaints. The older one is vegetarian so I make her a different version of the meal. I give them 'safe' foods, I try to stay neutral, I choose the food they choose the quantity etc.

But they gripe and complain and cry if i ask the slightest thing of them, and even shout sometimes, and the little one slams doors and calls me names.

I'm done. I just want to put them straight in front of the telly with a family pack of crisps and a bar of chocolate every evening and avoid the battles.

It all seems too rigid to me.
For both the 5 year old and 8 year old.

Get home, take their water bottles and lunch boxes from their bags yourself, it only takes 30 seconds you said.

Let them have a drink and some cheese and biscuits or fruit, and relax, or chat to you in the kitchen

I wouldn’t read at this point.

TV on and playing, while you make dinner.

Dinner, playing and reading at this point.

Bath in a while, not straight after food, and then bed, but nearer 7 I think.

Bed time story

I would probably relax the after school schedule in your position, which isn't to say don't bother with anything and let them binge on junk in front of the telly. But it doesn't seem enjoyable for any of you and sounds a bit beyond the usual parenting slog (mine grumble about food and doing music practice, but there's no door slamming or name calling). They go to bed quite early, so possibly they're already pretty tired. I would try letting them either watch a bit more telly or just muck around and play, and probably drop the scheduled reading (encourage reading in other ways- lots of interesting books around, older one having her own reading light for bed etc). FWIW, my 8 year old would be hangry by 5:30ish if all she'd had since lunch was biscuits and fruit, though appreciate they all have different appetites.

My two are this age and rarely act like this. I give them downtime after school and don't put any demands on them other than going to the loo/ washing their hands. They are usually very tired after school, I can't imagine making them read/ do homework. I used to insist they have a healthy snack but now I pick my battles and let them choose a snack whilst I cook a healthy meal.

I think rather than changing anything about the routine you set them, it might be about changing how you react. You say that their rudeness provokes you. They escalate by being rude and then you escalate by the way they react. They then learn to escalate from this. If you can change this it will in turn change their behaviour. I’m not saying it’s easy, but start with thinking about the battles you really want to concentrate on and the ones you can let go of for now. This might give you more energy to react more calmly to the bigger things, such as not raising your voice, gently putting in a consequence when you are both calm enough to do so (ie no telly for the following day can be used, but tell them this when you are both calm, not in the heat of the moment when they are being rude). Strike when the iron is cold!

Maybe read books or doing their chores instead of tv while you cook and tv after dinner if they got all their chores done - a checklist might help

Are they actually hungry for dinner at 5.30 if they've had a snack at 4? I would try pushing dinner back to 6 (have a play time before dinner). Perhaps always ensure there us a reliable safe veg on the plate that they like (cucumber/green beans/ corn on the cob etc) that they have to finish, and any other veg they just have to try

Every time they moan, start moaning exaggeratedly back at them and cap it all off by collapsing on the floor with your fingers in your ears shouting, 'La, la, la, la, la. I can't hear you. I CAN ONLY HEAR HAPPY THINGS!' really loudly. They'll stop after a while because it will get tedious.

For the food, limit what you have in the house. It's easier if you tend to shop most days, which we do, but my DC will choose a 'treat' for pudding - small chocolate bar, cake etc - a couple of times a week on the way back from school and we don't have a lot of 'treat' food in the rest of the time. I agree with filling them up on protein - pancakes, muffins, waffles can be good sources if you put the right stuff in and taste great with some whipped cream and a little maple syrup.

In your situation, there are two approaches I would take to dinner. One is stay out of the house longer so they can work up an appetite and are ravenous by dinner time. Problem with this one is that it's cold and miserable, it was easier in the summer. Do you have a warm library nearby? The other is to do dinner earlier when they're actually hungry and then maybe they could join you for a snack/pudding when you'd usually all sit down together later on.

An 8 year old has every right to say she doesn't want to eat meat! @Ytcsghisn I hope you're not suggesting she should be forced to eat meat, that's terrible!!

I have 2DDs the same age and they have way more freedom after school than yours do. I pretty much let them do what they want to from 3:30pm until 6:45pm when I ask them to tidy up whatever mess they’ve made in the playroom. I always help them tidy. At 7pm they do 15 mins instrument practice and then 15 mins school maths times tables app. Sometimes they watch TV the whole time, other nights they don’t switch it on and do crafts or games. Most evenings they do a mix of everything. We don’t have a set dinner time, they have a snack when they get in. I aim for 6pm but if they tell me they are hungry I just make dinner earlier and warm mine and DHs portion through later. Around half 7 they shower themselves and read school books to me whilst I’m brushing their hair. I then read to youngest or we listen to a story on Alexa, whilst eldest reads what she wants to in her own room (currently re-reading Dealthy Hallows). For other maths/English homework they have a week to complete it so we always do this at the weekend. Both are doing really well as school and weeknights are mostly stress free. I would relax your schedule and only stick to your guns re healthy eating. In my experience among my friends DC the children with the worst attitudes ie shouting and name calling often have the bossiest parents who are constantly berating them for playing too loudly, making mess etc.

They might just be following the OP's narrative though as they mention screens. Downtime in my house isn't screen time, but you probably wouldn't know that from my reply to the OP.

OP there were times my DD was so vile in the car on the way home from school that making her get out and walk would have come as a relief. (It couldn't happen, narrow lane, in the dark). Looking back, she was probably at the end of her tether. A long day with all the effort and complications and limitations of school (climbing trees would have been a much better option but sadly unavailable). DD was just 'done'.
Maybe give your kids a break till dinner and then look at what needs to be done. Can school bags wait? Can reading be done half an hour before bed?
Can DH do the reading with them? Can you sort the schoolbags-yes I know they should.
It's not a useful comparison but as a child of 5 or 8, I would have done nothing at all after school apart from play with friends on the way home/play at home/read a book/watch children's TV. We ask a lot of modern children. Your children may be like mine and simply have had enough at the end of the school day.

What’s the consequence for door slamming and rudeness @Tetherrrrrr ? You say their rudeness provokes you, are you shouting / slamming things? You need to stay calm and you need to stop that sort of bad behaviour. A bit of icy calm can work well (I don’t mean silent treatment, that’s not acceptable). And “oh dear you're
obviously very tired to be speaking to me like that / slamming doors instead of staying calm - looks like you need to get to bed early tonight”

what I would note from your routine is that there doesn’t seem to be room to blow off steam, do you walk home from school? Can you find a way to involve some physical activity? It might help them get school and any pent up emotions out rather than taking them out on the door or you.

and if your 8yo is old enough to choose vegetarianism she’s old enough to understand she can’t just eat junk. can you ignore her whinging? “Oh you’ve said this to me so many times and you know the answer so I won’t be telling you again.”
then change the subject or say “you know the answer” every time she whines for junk food. Then allow her to have a small amount of treat food once a week on a set day, so you can also say - “is today the day you get pizza / sweets / extra cake? No. So please don’t ask again. It’s very dull.
What can we talk about that’s more interesting? [insert exciting fact or event or question of your choice]”

finally (sorry long post!) have you heard about fulfilling wishes in fantasy? Your DC are about the right age to enjoy this. So when the whining for junk starts you say, “oh it’s not treat day what a shame. But if it was what would be the most amazing treat you could imagine? I’d have 30 jam doughnuts with ice cream and sprinkles and glittery syrup and unicorn tears.”

I think there's an issue of whether they eat, and then an issue of them complaining. In our house we're not allowed to say food is 'yucky' or 'disgusting'. We can say 'I don't like it' or 'it's not my favourite' and they can just eat as much of the bits they do like. If they don't eat anything, they can have a banana before bed. You don't deserve to be whined at about food. I would also have their dad talk to them about it saying that anytime someone cooks you a meal you should be grateful even if you don't like it. It's a kind thing for someone to do and we show gratitude in this family.

I had to get ok with her not eating (and she regularly doesn't eat dinner) and then I offer a bigger breakfast.

She's almost 4 and when she's older I will give her more input on the mealplan e.g. she won't be allowed to demand mcdonalds but if she wants burgers or pizzas once a week, I will allow that. Everyone deserves a bit of autonomy on what they put in their tummy. Any cries of 'you never make something i like' or 'i just want XXX' will be met with suggest it for the meal plan and I will do one of your choices next week.

I really don't want to kick you while you're down @Tetherrrrrr but your priorities, while well intentioned, are just totally out of whack.

Your absolute priority right now is to make it crystal clear that door slamming or name calling will not be tolerated and it simply isn't what respectful human beings do. There needs to be consequences and a family meeting about house rules and what will and won't be tolerated.

It sounds to me like everything is incredibly rigid and timetabled and that's a shame for the kids after a day in school so I am not surprised at the emotional disregulation. It's time to revisit what an evening in the Tetherrrrr household looks like and how child and family centric it is.

The children have been at school all day, I am assuming you have been at work, and I don't understand the pressure the minute you all step in the door. I also love to read but children will or won't gravitate towards it naturally and I simply can't imagine being told this is something I must do the moment I walk in the door. Where is the fun? Where is the lightness? Where is the much needed breather after a busy day? You seem very black and white in your thinking that it must be either reading and a plate of veggies versus gorging on doughnuts and developing square eyes from screens. All the while your child is unhappy and acting out.

Why don't you all take a breather when you get home? Please don't schedule it. Why not just let them be? And yourself? Pour yourself a cup of tea and chill while the children entertain themselves an unwind after a busy day? Surely we all deserve the opportunity to draw breath and fill our time as we please? Even children? Please try and relinquish some control over the smaller stuff and make a conscious effort to take control of the big stuff (like unacceptable behaviour) and you will find home to be a much happier place for all of you.

When you say 30 mins of TV, do you wait until the end of the programme they are watching. My aunt used to turn it off when she decided we had enough television. It didn't matter that it was inn the middle of a programme. It used to drive us mad.

god we have had the conversation endlessly on a loop for literally years.

That's sounds very intense for the ages of your children. You are making food into an issue and you need to stop doing that.

You also need to feed your children earlier. It doesn't matter at this age if daddy is home or not, you eat with your children if you think it's important and he can reheat his later.

No activities after school unless planned ones like swimming etc. home is for relaxing, who wants more activities when they've been at school all day? Reading is for bedtime. With our two we did a family half hour all together on our bed before their bedtime. We read to them for years and then they started reading to us, we did that until they were about 12 and they loved it (in the end they read and tested us on factual books rather than stories).

One meal for everyone with a veggie protein substitute for the veggie child.

You need to relax. They’re 5 and 8. We do reading much later in the evening. They need downtime after school.

I think you are forcing the reading.

Our routine (when we don't have extra curricular) for kids aged 8-10

Home 3.45pm - snack after school.
Chill out for a few hours. Help me cook. Chat in the kitchen. Play with Lego. Watch TV. We limit screen time but it slides if we are watching something educational.
Dinner 6pm - all eat as a family
Homework and instrument practice - 6.20ish until 7pm
7-7.30pm - Chill
7.30pm - Bath time
8pm
8.30pm / 9pm lights out

Both kids have been free readers since reception so read to us / themselves. Whatever they fancy.

Any tantrums / moans over food are met with a reduction in screen time. We try and plan food together. Fridays are for beige foods and sleepovers and playdates.

People on here are really odd sometimes. OP, reading after school is great. 5.30 is on the early side to eat if anything.

Personally, if supper is the problem I would be inclined to move TV to after supper and they only get TV if they've been polite at supper. They don't have to eat everything but they need to not be rude about it.

Are they a problem before supper or is it supper that is the sticking point?

This!
There has to be consequences for bad behaviour. I'm all for kids expressing emotions but not to the detriment of your sanity and peace x

i would give them a banana and a glass of milk and then sit down with them on either side of me on the sofa and we would all read for half an hour.
Then empty bags and re pack them ready for the morrow and if time tv while cooking is being done.
if food tantrums happen no television the dolling day.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAQPHc9sOFF/?igsh=MWU4dTJmMWRsdnJ6dQ==

Following day

Mine are similar expletives about dinner. They're 10 & 7. They have a break after school with snack and TV, then play, then we eat. So I'm not convinced altering your schedule will make a difference. My 7yo famously shouted, 'WHEN are you FINALLY going to cook something I ACTUALLY like'! And 10yo proclaimed school dinners to be much nicer than home food. I was very bloody unimpressed. I booked school lunch every day for a month for the pair of them, whether they liked the menu or not, and if they didn't want the meal they had a sandwich. They soon started asking for packed lunches some days. Packed lunch is now on the proviso they eat the meal at home. They also both pick one meal a week each and a third meal that they both like. They don't realise I did this anyway. Gives them an illusion of autonomy. The sods.

Take control before it is too late.

No.
You give them the healthy stuff and the bad stuff from time to time.
You tell them that if they want to eat cakes, doughnuts etc then they HAVE to eat the good stuff too.

No good stuff, no ‘treats’