DW crying infront of the children

[Tonytonitonee]

Does crying / arguing in front of children have an long term impact on their well being? I remember my parents having screaming rows when i was younger and being unpstairs listening and being in a state of panic. This was 30-35 odd years ago and it still makes me upset when I remember.

Due to my childhood experience, I have tried my best not to be too emotional in front of my children.

However, my DW has no hesitation crying or arguing in front of the children.

This means we cannot have an adult conversation about any issues with our marriage because she will become very defensive & shouty.

It also means that when she criticises me in front of the children, and she does fairly often, I don't defend myself. I generally accept her criticism because I want descalate the situation. Unfortunately, the children have occasionally repeated DW's criticism.

I am abit lost as to what I should do next. I am deeply, deeply unhappy, but I am too scared to say anything for fear of upsetting DW.

Red flag

In no way children should be dragged into this.

I am sorry if I come up with nonsense here but can I ask what culture your DW is from? Because I must say, it sounds very valid and true in different culture. Children haven’t been scared but yeah the mom is always very central of everything.

Crying is fine infront of children if you are sad I believe but it is not ok to argue or belittle each other in front of them

I think you are right to keep arguments away from the children, but not at the expense of not being able to put your point of view across. If a situation escalates, I think you need to say 'Let's talk about this later, not now in front of the kids'. She needs to agree to do this. Her telling the kids you are being mean, or letting them repeat the put-downs, is just wrong too, she also needs to stop doing that.
Could the sudden outbursts and tears be hormonal?

It sounds like she is being emotionally abusive to you and it needs to stop. Show her this post and the comments and see what she says. If she dismisses it or calls you names, she is being knowingly abusive.
what you do about it is up to you.

It depends on context. I agree that the dynamic is not healthy in OP's case. My husband and I have argued in front of our son but we have also made up in front of him. I think modelling resolving friction in relationships can be positive but we love each other and do not make each other cry. We have also cried in front of him (me more than my husband, predictably) if feeling down, sad or anxious about something and have talked about it being a release. Crying doesn't have to be inhibited or something of which to be ashamed. Generally, we do try to promote emotional literacy in the widest sense. My mother never argued back during the times my dad got angry or laid down the law and generally let him decide the direction of family life. I believe that I found the submissive, trad wife dynamic just as disturbing as those who were damaged by parental arguments and vowed never to let this happen to me.

It seems your DW doesn’t know how to express herself in an acceptable way to you and that you don’t know how to address the problem to achieve a better dynamic. By the sounds of things you are both stressed, tired and unhappy and things need to change.
If you are open to it, please look into learning about emotional intelligence. It’s the best course I ever took and personally I’m so much better now at knowing how to handle my own emotions plus those of others. It would give you strategies to put your own wants and needs out there in an acceptable way but also to be able to identify what is going on for your DW. She may just feel unheard but doesn’t know how to get through to you. She may not want to be abusive but does not know how to get her message across any other way so lashes out in desperation.
You don’t even need to start with a course there are many great books to read on the subject.
The other posters are so right, you do not want your children to grow up thinking this is normal, you want them to be articulate and able to deal with conflict so you need to demonstrate it.

Her airing criticisms of you that are being repeated by your children is not right, it will give the children a complete lack of respect for you, maybe try relationship counselling. Also you not showing emotion at all in front of them is not healthy for them either.

This. Emotional abuse. Please try to get help for you and your children. I so feel for you

Hiding your emotions in front of your children teaches them to hide their emotions. Not healthy. Disagreeing healthily in front of children teaches them how to resolve disputes. But viciously criticising a partner in front of the children is not ok. I'm sorry you had the experience of your parents' blazing rows, maybe you should seek counselling alone, or with your wife, to learn how to have a healthier relationship?

We will have a serious conversation in private but she will relay it back to the children and make it seem much worse than it actually was. - not acceptable - not at all. Have you told her this? - asked her not to do it? - pointed out how bad this is for the chidlren?

I was the child in the "go-between" scenario where my parents would try and recruit me on one or other side - it was true agony. Please don't let your children endure this.

There could be one of two things happening here - your wife is being upset by, then shut down by you and is struggling to regulate her emotions, or it’s as you describe it and she is behaving manipulatively and toxically and involving the children where they shouldn’t be involved to punish you. Without actually being there it’s difficult to say which is the case. You’ve painted a very convincing picture to absolve yourself of any blame and come across as the calm and reasonable one while your wife has been painted as slightly hysterical and toxic. It’s very rarely this cut and dry in a relationship, unless one partner is clearly abusive. If that’s the case, then you need to think about your future with someone like that, if that’s isn’t the case then you need to have an honest and frank conversation with yourself about your part in things.

I wouldn't. If I did something wrong and DH said look at this I couldn't cope well with that.

It's like saying I spoke to my friend about you and she thinks you're horrid.

Either a constructive conversation works, otherwise therapy, if not it's not a sustainable relationship.

I do think everyone can improve their emotional intelligence. It sounds like you could have clearer boundaries. Maybe your wife is depressed and could benefit from therapy. Or maybe she has a personality disorder. Or all the above.

But equally abuse is never ok. There isn't an excuse for telling the kids daddy is mean or starting yelling arguments in front of the kids. Even if you did something awful, it's not OK to treat someone like this. And she should be mindful of the impact on the kids putting them in the middle of conflicts.

I agree with those saying contact abuse helplines and go from there. Hopefully your wife will accept help. And if she doesn't I'm hoping you get custody of the kids.

Children need to learn how to regulate their emotions, and they do that by seeing adults manage big feelings.
Yes we should cry, shout, and show fear, infront of children, but in managed ways. We shouldn't lose control, we shouldn't scare them, and we shouldn't scar them.

It is important they know that it is normal and natural to get upset, angry, scared, embarrassed, all the emotions, but there is a safe way of dealing with it. Good parent modeling will teach them those ways.

A child who's never seen a parent show emotion, or has witness a parent with disregulated emotions, will most likely have disregulated emotions themselves.

That's why we have so many angry children today, when many many parents are obsessed with their phones, shouting at little jonny to "be quiet, shut up, sit down" so as not to disturb mummy who's on tiktok, it's no wonder little jonny grows up angry. It's modelled behaviour.

If your parents don't show you how to express your emotions, you either get angry, or you suppress it and internalise it. Neither are healthy.

Yes it majorly does. I have PTSD from the rows between my parents. But ridiculous but I’m 34 and my dreams will unconsciously take me back to those rows and I’m a little girl viewing all over again. Rather bitter my parents couldn’t have been the grownups in the situation!

This.

Me too re childhood trauma listening to parental rows
If you do split, having tried some of the good suggestions in this thread I really hope you get custody. My dad didn't but we all lknged to be with him, mum was just too much to cope with and still is. Dad has a lovely new family who love us too, he's always there for us, his adult children, and so is his lovely wife who has healed him. He's a lovely man who did not deserve my mum and yes, she's had masses of mh support, diagnosed borderline personality disoorder, refuses treatment, enjoys the chaos she causes. My maternal grandparents and uncle and aunts are all lovely, have all suffered. She has a partner who looks very, very unhappy always 😔

Given that her outbursts are sporadic and knowing how hormones can severely affect a woman could she be in perimenopause?
Befote I started hrt I was a completely different person from my usual self. The rage I felt was unstoppable and came in an instant.
I would never slag off my DP to our DC but they know that we have had issues and sadly where I’ve not been able to control myself I have shouted at their dad in front of them (indirectly, they weren’t in the same room).
We, DP & DC and I have spoken about why I got like that and how it can be fixed.
HRT was a game changer!!

Sadly I have been extremely emotional in front of my DC due to hormones and mental illness but we discuss how the tears don’t last forever and how the crying brought me light and I feel better and that it’s ok to cry when we feel like we need to because we will feel better afterwards.

I do pray that I haven’t scarred my DC but I think I’m teaching them a good lesson.

Just because you DW may be menopausal, it doesn’t make it ok to be an arsehole though and it should be checked out.

Davina McCalls documentary on All4 app is amazing!! I think everyone should watch it because it’s so informative and eye opening.

Good luck

Wow! This is just awful! How old are your DC? I remember my parents having blazing rows when I was a child and it’s still resonates with me now and I’m 54 years old! You are absolutely right it does affect children growing up to hear their parents yelling at each other and your wife seems to be making it worse by relaying private conversations back to your children AND exaggerating the content thereof! I think you need to seek couples counselling or you need to have a very frank conversation with her about how unhappy you are perhaps consider separation from her. She sounds emotionally abusive to me. I wish you all the best.

As an example, her default position when upset is to give the silent treatment. She will do it in front of the children and I will not react or say anything. I have learnt to withdraw myself from the situation. If I bring this up a few days later she will become defensive and upset. This can last for days and she will openly cry in front of the children or say, "your father doesn't like me."
So I cannot do anything.

I don’t know if she’s got some kind of personality disorder (touch of narcissism maybe?) but she’s clearly hyper-sensitive to any perceived criticism.

Either way your wife is behaving in a way that is very harmful not only to you, but your kids.

What are you planning to do?

We are both Asian, and this type of 'thing' (exposing children to parental conflict) is imho pretty common. I was exposed to it as a child but she was exposed to alot more than me.

The silent treatment is a really tough one to solve especially when it is the kind where you can't discuss it even several days later.

There is nothing you can do, she knows it forces you into a passive behaviour where she "wins" by refusing to discuss or accept anything she doesn't want to. Couples councilling won't help because this is her problem not yours, you and your children feel the impact but the problem is visited on you by your DW.

You only have one realistic option if you want to stay together and that is for you to get councilling to find coping strategies for you and to help your children. Your children may need councilling to cope too.

I really feel for you, this is not a good way to live for your family

Honestly l, I am not going to do anything. It was good to vent and read the useful responses.

I'll try and convince her to go to therapy, either as a couple or separately. I think either option will be helpful.

I won't react to anything she says and I will keep my calm.

@Tonytonitonee

My exH used to do 'the silent treatment'. To 'save my sanity' I taught myself to regard those times not as 'silent treatment', but as 'blessed silence'. If he was giving me the cold shoulder he wasn't insulting me or yelling. And when it was over I never mentioned it. What would be the point? All it would do is cause more problems for me. But I finally had enough (he was abusive in other ways) and I kicked him out. I went to therapy to learn why I put up with his abuse and came out a stronger and mentally healthier person. Married my now DH a few years later. We've been together over 38 years, raised two fine young men and are now retired. Life is good. But that's because I made the right decision all those years ago, not to put up with an abusive spouse.

If you really aren't going to end the marriage (I would) then you'll need to learn coping mechanisms. If she gives you the silent treatment, just shrug and go about your business. When it's over, ignore it. What she wants is your reaction, your emotions, and when you talk to her about it afterwards you are giving her exactly what she wants; your reaction that she can react to, in your case, to involve your children. Don't play into her hands.

Honestly, I think therapy would do you good, you need a safe place to vent and a professional to help you develop not only coping strategies for yourself, but ways to help your children. Because she will start her tactics on them (if she hasn't already) once they get old enough to speak their minds and 'defy' her. You need to realize that she will damage them emotionally when that happens.

This is what angers me. If you want to live in misery, that's your decision and have at it. But your children deserve better than to grow up in a home where their mother is emotionally manipulative and their father tolerates it. What example is that setting for them for when they choose their own partners? And what damage will her manipulation of them do to their self esteem? And don't try to tell yourself that you'll 'stop her' damaging the children. You won't because you don't stop her abusing you now.

And as far as suggesting therapy to her, really? I'm not saying she doesn't need it, but just how do you think she's going to receive that idea?

And finally an honest question, why won't you leave and take the children? If your sister or your brother had told you the same things you've told us, would you really tell them to put up with it? Or would you say "Get free and be happy".